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Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

tomshardware.com

181–190 of 499 posts

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you owned a small business you'd be singing a very different tune.

Own a small business, still cancer. Will never use and lo and behold, all runs fine.

Most small businesses do not have the luxury of ready made distribution channels.

Especially if it's an ecommerce business.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#182

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

Also a lot of US STEM grads have their skills wasted in unproductive fields, like the ad business.

If it's so unproductive why does it pay so well?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#183
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addressing those "grievances" hasn't worked out too well for Russia. They complained about Ukraine moving in the general direction of NATO membership, and got Sweden and Finland as actual new members of NATO. Finland has a longer Russian border than Ukraine, and Sweden has a regional navy that pretty much controls the Baltic Sea. Both countries were pretty firmly neutral before the war.

and that has what, exactly, to do with the legitimacy of said grievances?

Because for all of Russia's apocalyptic rhetoric about the dire consequences of NATO membership on their borders, they've done nothing significant about Finland and Sweden actually becoming NATO members while stepping up their military spending. By comparison, a little political noise about Ukraine maybe joining NATO someday is much less of a provocation, which makes it seem unlikely to have been Russia's actual reason for invasion. And from any reasonable ethical perspective it's certainly not a legitimate one.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is though, more value is generated by the MIC than is put in and war has yet to ruin the productive capacity of the United States. The societal ills of this are why it’s popular to call America an evil empire

Ah the broken window fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

No actually, that's about the opportunity cost of war. There's a left-wing argument I frequently see that the US finds wars to increase profitability but I'm talking about the propping up of firms to keep the industrial capacity ready. It is not the most productive use of capital, but it is productive.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#185

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditional engineering routes in the US.

I myself was an electrical engineering (EE) major until I switched to computer science in my third (junior) year of college because like a friend of mine at the time told me, ", if you don't major in computer science, you will not be able to find a job easily after graduation". He was right. All of my former college friends in EE ended up pursuing programming jobs (a few of them now works for FAANG; I used to work for one but left a year ago due to RTO). That is why the US has no sufficient personnel to do traditional engineering jobs and we have shipped off a lot of those to foreign countries.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#186

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

Re the first point: Why do you think it is so difficult to transfer chip production off Taiwan?

I don’t think this is about salaries. Nor is this about facilities.

This is about process know-how. And it’s currently not available outside of Taiwan. I’m glad we’re finally starting to transfer knowledge. It will take a couple more years.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your realistic options? Say TSMC pays supper competitive US salaries to attract US-only labor, higher labor cost which is causing the end product to be more expensive, which makes that fab uncompetitive globally causing Apple to go buying from someone else and TSMC either choosing leaving the US or going bust eating the losses. You can't compete with lower-wage countries in a globalized world with no trade b…

The problem was never the cost of labor. US tech is already highly profitable and they can pay the full salary if they wish to. But their desire is basically to get a free card to pay lower salaries by any means, so they can send more of those profits to shareholders. The US is essentially a fighting arena between shareholders and workers. The profit is there, it is just a matter of how business want to keep always m…

Do you also think that if a business loses money, the employees should give some of their pay back to the business? Or does this just go one way?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#188
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your realistic options? Say TSMC pays supper competitive US salaries to attract US-only labor, higher labor cost which is causing the end product to be more expensive, which makes that fab uncompetitive globally causing Apple to go buying from someone else and TSMC either choosing leaving the US or going bust eating the losses. You can't compete with lower-wage countries in a globalized world with no trade b…

> when Apple wants higher profits and consumers lower prices Trump wants chips that say "Made in 'Merica". I dont think cost comes into it that much.

The DoD is the driver. They're freaked out about the supply chain vulnerabilities.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the US plundered any Ukrainian assets they could get their hands on, instead of supporting the Ukrainian government and freezing Russian assets instead?

The Ukrainian government is very much still extant

Just as the Taiwan government could continue to be, despite invasion from China.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#190

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as packaging partner Amkor's facility in Arizona won't be ready until 2027*. I'm not sure the cause of the delta but it could be in part because Fab 21 got back on schedule rather impressively following earlier delays. * updated to reflect newer article that Amkor's facility is delayed beyond late-2025

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