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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

itvision.altervista.org

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Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#181

Post by zahlman »

> Countless software tiles in Linux have a huge number of bugs and missing features. That's because Linux is severely underfunded on the desktop. While Linux is unrivaled on servers and has been the world's most popular operating system for over two decades, the situation on the desktop is quite bleak.

Applications for Linux are underfunded. Linux itself is one of the few open-source projects that attracts enough money that a significant number of people could in principle actually be employed and properly paid. (Although a huge percentage of Linux Foundation money is going to things that... are not the kernel.) Funding Linux more isn't going to fix those software titles, because they're developed independently. Even desktop managers etc. aren't the Linux Foundation's responsibility. It's not like imagining a world where Edge is developed by a separate company that isn't Microsoft; imagine if Windows Explorer were separate from Windows proper.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#182

Post by Klonoar »

devops99 wrote: post #126

This website is for hackers, not "geek squad". I am very disappointed that something of such low quality could manage to be linked on one of the first few pages of this site.

You are commenting on a site that effectively represents the VC-centric startup world, not the /.-esque hacker world of yesterday. That it uses the term “hacker” in its name doesn’t make it Linux-central.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#183

Post by FireSquid2006 »

Linux won't be popular on the desktop because normal people don't change the operating system on their computer. They either dont know how (because they dont need to) or dont care because everything works fine.

I think Chromebooks will continue to get larger market share, as plenty of people just need a web browser, but that's about it.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#184

Post by imiric »

foobiekr wrote: post #140
imiric wrote: post #81

> Regressions are introduced all the time because Linux developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages outside of the problems they're trying to fix or features they're implementing. Wow. Such sweeping generalizations make me not want to pay attention to anything this article has to say. But let's entertain the possibility that parts of that statement are…

Working for a vendor that ships Linux code, we find regressions all the time. Because we actually test things. We do try to be good citizens, and Linux is the right answer, but it isn't a false assertion on the part of the author at all. In a previous job, 20 years ago, we found that the Linux USB stack was so bad that it was full of deadlocks and unprotected shared memory on 2.6. Just atrocious. And subsequent relea…

> [...] it isn't a false assertion on the part of the author at all.

I wasn't arguing that it was entirely false, but that the generalizations of "regressions are introduced all the time" and "Linux developers spend little to no time" can't be applied to the entire Linux ecosystem.

I wouldn't discredit your experience, but speaking of Linux kernel development specifically, my understanding as a user is that it's held to a very high standard of scrutiny. Rants from Linus are famous for drilling into people that "WE DON'T BREAK USERSPACE". If you consider how many thousands of lines of code are changed on a regular basis, it's an engineering wonder that it works as well as it does. In many ways Linux is a victim of its success.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#186

Post by do_not_redeem »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #164
imiric wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can be a miracle, and yet still not be good enough. "Good enough" is highly subjective. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but millions of people also think otherwise. > Even as a business user, knowing that if I build an app and it probably won’t work in 5 years, is all I need to know about this hobbyist toy. That ultimately depends on your tech stack and app features, much more than your OS. If you bu…

> “Good enough" is highly subjective. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but millions of people also think otherwise. Ironically, I might as well point out that billions of people think otherwise of Linux. In some countries, a few trees is “good enough” as a bridge. The IRS, of course, says COBOL is “good enough” to use as a web backend for the moment. The weirdest thing is how people complain that engineeri…

> Oregon Trail, a game made for Windows 95, still runs on Windows 11

Fatal error: MSVCRT70.DLL could not be found.

But that's easy enough to fix, right? Just dig through Windows's package manager (sorry, I meant MSDN) trying to guess the right vcredist, and try a few and hope for the best.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#187

Post by layer8 »

pshirshov wrote: post #176
layer8 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound like something the average computer user would be able or willing to do.

There are plenty of options which would do for that average user.

This subthread started with “When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled, sooner or later.” Then came the objection that one wouldn’t do that with Nix. Then that yeah, but Nix is too difficult to use. Then that no, it isn’t that difficult after you spend a weekend or two learning it. Which isn’t for the average user. Now you say there are plenty of other options, presumably non-Nix. I feel we are back to where this subthread started.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#188

Post by dTal »

Karellen wrote: post #112
IgorPartola wrote: post #57

The main criticism I see as valid here is first point: software distribution is tricky. For macOS and Windows you basically have a model where you can go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs. Most Linux distros won’t jive with that very well. And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t…

> And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t fit in. Most apps/DEs/etc. use either GTK or Qt. If your application uses GTK or Qt, it will use the user's preferred GTK/Qt theme by default, and fit in with all the other GTK/Qt apps on their system. Sure, you might get unlucky, and your GTK app won't look gr…

wxWidgets isn't niche; it's probably the most commonly used third party toolkit to build commercial Linux desktop applications (yes they exist!). I guess Qt licensing is too scary, and GTK too crap.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#189

Post by __d »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #141
acaloiar wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this hobbyist toy. Linux is fundamentally not ready for anyone who has needs more than a Chromebook Wow, piss right off you to you, too. Linux is ready for me, and has been for decades. By your logic, I need nothing but a Chromebook. Linux is imperfect, like you, but it's never been an ass.

I’ve used Linux since 2011; I know all about it; and I would recommend it to nobody because the community can hear no criticism, bear no criticism, and self-rationalizes everything. Sometimes it takes a bold stance to make a point against one of the most toxic, delusional, and self-righteous communities online. For my part, I’m back on Windows and Mac. Screw the community’s arrogance more than the project. The commun…

I think it’s clear that today’s “desktop Linux” distributions are not what you want. That’s ok. Your criticisms come from the point of view of a usage that is poorly supported.

Android is perhaps the closest to what you seem to want, although even it is much more aggressive about deprecating APIs, ABIs, and features than Windows.

The is no Linux distribution today that even attempts to deliver the interface stability you appear to want. And given the development model and business structures involved, I think it’s unlikely there ever will be.

You, and the many computer users like you, will probably never have a suitable Linux distribution. That’s an unfortunate reality. It’s not your fault: what you want is reasonable, but Linux isn’t set up to deliver it.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#190

Post by dark__paladin »

scarface_74 wrote: post #135
pr337h4m wrote: post #88

The main reason why Linux on the desktop has never gone mainstream is that it is extremely difficult to find a good laptop that comes with Linux preinstalled, where the OEM is responsible for ensuring a seamless experience, as any bugs in WiFi, audio, drivers, peripherals, etc. is the OEM's responsibility, not the consumer's. 99% of computer users will never consider replacing the operating system that came installed…

The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? I was forced to use Windows for a year as a developer. I threw WSL2 on it and it was fine . I installed Docker desktop for Windows and it worked fine for Linux. But especially on the Mac, while I have to download updated commands, it is genuinely certified UNIX. On both Macs and Windows I also ge…

Philosophy aside, many users actually do not prefer to have ads and data tracking built-in to the devices they use.
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