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Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#181
As a white male (I only mention this since you did), I didn't have any trouble finding employment this year. I wrote about my experience here: https://sjer.red/blog/2024/job-hunt/

I do believe the market is pretty bad though, especially for new grads. I don't think it'll ever recover because of AI, and that realistically you'll have to be talented, passionate, or hard-working to work as a software engineer.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#182
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably going to be unpopular, but as a non-American, I actually find that hiring non-American is a good trend, especially if you want to sell all around the world. I don't have an opinion on H1-B specifically.

do you feel that employers in your home country should also follow this rubric?

Software ones? Absolutely.

Companies selling physical goods lead to a decent amount of jobs in every country they operate in by definition. Not so for software.

It is US big tech who has for a decade or 2 reaped enormous benefits from extracting large sums of money from non-US economies while contributing near-zero back to those economies (often not just near-zero but straight up deeply negative amounts due to externalities).

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#183

I see this as a combination of three forces at play: AI, WFH, and Skillset--all adding downward pressure to hiring talent in the U.S.: 1) While A.I. may now be only adding 10-20% of productivity gains, the rapid pace of improvement leaves open the possibility that tha gains can be soon much more than that. So, instead of scaling your company now, if you can afford to, wait out a bit and see where this goes. 2) Even t…

> 3) While advanced skillsets and deep experience is necessary in many (but not most) startups, and while these skills are more difficult to find in India or Pakistan, the reality is, for many, many tech companies, most of the work doesn't require top-notch skills. You don't need a top 99% percentile in frontend engineering skills for a 1-year-old "name whatever category" app. And with the recent rise of focus on profitability, frugality, and the difficulty in fund-raising, being cognizant of cost per talent is now a thing.

a. Note that "outside of the US" covers more than India and Pakistan. Google, Microsoft, Meta, etc. all have sizeable research or R&D centers in France, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, UK, etc. Most of these countries have engineers of a level comparable (better by some metrics, worse by others) to US engineers.

b. I've known several top-notch programmers from India. One of them is an important contributor to the Linux kernel, another to the core of Firefox. I have no clue how common that is, but be wary of stereotypes.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#184
post #161
post #86

It's not just you. I have an Ivy league degree, worked in deep learning since alexnet at a leading startup in the space, was a CTO of a startup that got acquired and have referrals from very senior people at the top FANG companies and still struggled to get interviews. I also have research scientist friends with Neurips papers, ones that solved long standing open math problems and even they are struggling to get hire…

I could see outsourcing to Poland end up working out just as great as outsourcing to Ukraine did. Not saying it will happen tomorrow, but would not surprise me to see Russia go in there after they get a big chunk of Ukraine and slowly gain control of it's government.

Putin would be asking for WW3 if he tried that and it would not end well for him.

A ton of big tech companies opened large offices in Poland in the past few years. It’s starting to look like a pretty major tech hub. If you look at Google or Box job boards most of their open roles in Europe are in Warsaw.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#185
I know of many hiring manager who hire with recruiters that specialise in "diverse" candidates, where diverse means women and people of color only, so they can have better looking "diversity" stats. They certainly have a preference but this has been going since (at least) 2018 - it was true before the massive layoffs of 2023-24 and the end of ZIRP. What changed recently is that the market is really crap.

Incidentally all the people I know looking for a job are white males, but it may just be because they're the majority of people in tech I know anyway.

On legality of the above (given I was pretty sure it was illegal): It's legal, because "positive discrimination" is legal in the relevant EU countries (and in the UK).

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#186

I think your categories ('white male', 'Indian', ...) are a form of racism already. I mean, there are other categories you can use. Outsourcing, offshoring, and nearshoring all describe something similar (cutting costs by replacing the workforce) but do not categorize humans based on racial factors. I understand this is not the core of your question, but I did not want to leave it uncommented because I think it is in…

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#187
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is palpable. For many years, FAANGs and the likes have made billions across the world without hiring any significant amount of people in nearly all of those economies. Zero profit for the non-US countries. Take a random one, Denmark. Google and Apple sure have been making great money off of the Danes. What has Denmark gotten in return for it? Nothing. It's all gone towards (generally US) investor returns, a…

[flagged]

Great! US tech is by far the biggest benefactor of it (and it isn't close), so you'll be much, much worse off, but good luck. Those in Denmark that you don't care about will rejoice.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#188
post #86

It's not just you. I have an Ivy league degree, worked in deep learning since alexnet at a leading startup in the space, was a CTO of a startup that got acquired and have referrals from very senior people at the top FANG companies and still struggled to get interviews. I also have research scientist friends with Neurips papers, ones that solved long standing open math problems and even they are struggling to get hire…

Hiring a lot in Poland and from what I know paying peanuts compared to US salaries, but still above the market rate in Europe, mainly because market rate for engineers in EU is nothing to write home about.

It sucks for you guys, but its just the new reality. Engineering is dead end career unless you are top 10%, move on to management, or money doesnt play a role, but at that point you might as well go duck farming or become a carpenter.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#189
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably going to be unpopular, but as a non-American, I actually find that hiring non-American is a good trend, especially if you want to sell all around the world. I don't have an opinion on H1-B specifically.

do you feel that employers in your home country should also follow this rubric?

I'm afraid I don't understand what rubric you're talking of. Are you asking me whether employers across the world should read HN? Or is that an autocorrect typo for "rule"?

If the latter, yes, certainly. My last two employers had to hire US and Canadian developers anyway just to be able to sell to the US/Canada, so I guess it's already the case.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, exactly? These companies have foreign customers, it seems reasonable to expect that they would also want to have foreign employees that can speak the language, work in the same time zone, etc. And the demand for those employees is unlikely to be perfectly commensurate with demand for US based employees at all times. Seems like a ban would be pretty destructive, even if some of this hiring is an attempt at offsho…

If a company is operating in a foreign nation sure. If a company is operating in America on American soil and refusing to hire Americans because they want to save a buck, they should face penalties. I do not see hiring foreigners as being pro-American.

Under capitalism, a private company has duties to shareholders first. If you want companies has duties to their host country first, there are other social systems for that. Perhaps fascism.
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