The part about 'you guys' resonates.
I teach an introductory coding class and found myself saying 'you guys' to a mixed-gender group and it didn't feel right. Especially given that there were a smaller number of women in the group. I was wondering to myself if such language might make women feel excluded or stigmatized somehow depending on the context.
In Defense of Y'All
181–190 of 381 posts
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
The context of dating makes it no longer gender neutral. ("Guys and gals") But I've definitely heard people refer to groups composed entirely of women as "you guys".
I've still never heard, for example "this guy" when referring to eg a specific female coworker. I live in the midwest. "You guys" is frequently used as a genderless plural sure I guess but "guy" is not gender neutral.
Right, it's only the plural that's gender neutral. Kinda like how in Spanish "abeula" means "grandma", "abuelas" means "grandmas", and "abuelo" means "grandpa", but "abuelos" means "grandparents", not "grandpas". The masculine plural is gender inclusive in most contexts.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've still never heard, for example "this guy" when referring to eg a specific female coworker. I live in the midwest. "You guys" is frequently used as a genderless plural sure I guess but "guy" is not gender neutral.
Right, it's only the plural that's gender neutral. Kinda like how in Spanish "abeula" means "grandma", "abuelas" means "grandmas", and "abuelo" means "grandpa", but "abuelos" means "grandparents", not "grandpas". The masculine plural is gender inclusive in most contexts.
Ok but that's a different claim than the one I was originally replying to.
And anyway the masculine plural being genderless is a convention of romance languages, which english is not. It is not useful or consistent to describe expectations for english usage in terms of the features of other languages. Negative concord and invariant be are common language features globally but you don't hear white americans scrambling to include them in standard usage.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#184I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone use "youse guys", but "youse" without "guys" is indeed a now-archaic New Yorkism. However, it doesn't have any particular connection to Italian-American New York other than the fact that "youse" was a native New York dialect formulation that US-born children of Italian immigrants, along with many other ethnic groups, adopted naturally. I understand that "youse" is prevalent in a nu…
My native dialect is Italian-American South Philly, and "youse" occurs there too, although it may have literally died out by now.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#185I like seeing how far I can stack contractions, a purpose for which y'all is well suited. Eg "You all would not have" becomes y'all'dn't've.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#186Y'all is the American informal second-person plural pronoun Spanish: "ustedes" (formal) and "vosotros" (informal in Spain) or "vos" in some regions French: "vous" is the standard, but informally there's "vous autres" in Quebec French Portuguese: "vocês" formally, but "cês" informally in Brazilian Portuguese German: While "ihr" is standard, some dialects use "ihr alle" or regional variants Italian: "voi" is standard,…
Vous is also the polite singular second person pronoun in French so they are part way to losing the singular.
I did not know the abbreviation "AAVE" but its always struck me as odd how much a shared language has split along racial lines. I wonder whether there are similar things elsewhere. Obviously where people speak English as a second language and speak different first language they might speak it a bit differently, as might (recent) immigrant communities, but those are both very different.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#187Texas Monthly defending "y'all" is an absolute peak Texas Monthly moment.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#188As a non-native English speaker, I love "y'all" because it lets me directly translate our word for, well, "y'all" to English. I seriously struggle to formulate sentences such that it's clear from context that I mean "plural you" in this here case. So what happens is, I start saying a sentence that has "you" in it, and at the "y" I notice that it'll be unclear, I quickly bend it to "y'all", and the day is saved! Hoora…
"Folks" "Do you folks need more time?" The problem with "people" is it sounds vaguely rude or hostile. "Do you people need more time?"
That's "you folks" which I suppose would be "y'olks". I'll stick with "y'all", thanks.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#189Y'all is Texas' gift to inclusivity. When I joined a dev team that wasn't just guys, I worked hard to get away from saying "you guys", not because someone said I needed to, but because I felt that I needed to. Y'all worked because I came from Texas and its inclusive of everyone on the team. It has been my personal policy to use that in leu of "you guys" in all situations since then.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#190I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…
Except that, in at least some circles, "y'all" can be used to refer to one person.
When this happens the other people are implicit: for example "have y'all got Coke?" to a waiter at a restaurant, where "y'all" refers to all the people involved in the restaurant.
(The answer one does not want to hear, at least in Georgia, is "is Pepsi OK?")