Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

restofworld.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 199 posts

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#181

Post by lxgr »

Zak wrote: post #80
hocuspocus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICQ and AIM were pretty much dead already. Microsoft really missed an opportunity, I remember using a third party app for Messenger and the mobile experience wasn't great. Skype was too focused on voice and video calls, not seen as an instant messaging app, even though it could very well have been. The biggest fumble really comes from Google though. I was using Google Talk as my main messaging app on PC, and Android…

Hangouts was the default SMS client in Android for a while, and it worked well enough as an SMS client that I never heard anybody complain about it. Much like iMessage, it could upgrade to internet-based messaging if both people in a conversation used it. Where Google went wrong was bowing to pressure from carriers to stop doing that. Carriers had been much more powerful in the past, and I think Google failed to reco…

Do you have any details on that being due to carrier pressure?

I remember using Hangouts (and Google Talk before it) with almost everybody in my social circle. It had XMPP interoperability for a while (which let me use it at a computer, even with my phone battery dead, at a time when WhatsApp was available on the phone only) and it otherwise just worked.

I never understood why Google went out of their way as much as they did to kill a perfectly fine product in favor of various alternatives that just looked like yet another WhatsApp clone, including all the deficiencies of that (i.e. being single-device only, not using the existing Google account social network etc.)

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#182

Post by lxgr »

jorvi wrote: post #129
itikasp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I am one of the editors of this story, and we have also thought about this. In my opinion, one of the reasons why WhatsApp hasn't become the "everything app" in the US is because Apple/iOS devices are very popular in the country, where as in much of the world, Android is popular thanks to the availability of cheaper devices. Apple offers a suit of apps and features, including Facetime, that's not available for An…

WhatsApp has not become the "everything app" in the EU either? People use it for chatting with people, groups of people, or businesses. Virtually no one uses the Status or Communities feature. I have 289 people in my phone book right now, 1 of them occasionally posts on Status when on vacation. Of 25 people I quickly checked with, not one of them uses Communities.

I vaguely remember hearing that status updates are much more popular in other markets.

I could imagine the same for channels, as WhatsApp is zero-rated on many data plans in the developing world (as well as for in-flight Wi-Fi plans in more and more airlines!), which would make that an economical way of staying up to date on news.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#183

Post by lxgr »

orf wrote: post #42
Veserv wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is not a "everything" platform in most of Europe. Do you open WhatsApp to play music, games, order takeout, order online, pay for rent? It is just a very popular chat application in most of Europe in contrast to a "everything" app like WeChat where you do all of those things. [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/payments/in

Nope, but by that definition almost no countries have an “everything app”. There’s like, one example in a very unique market? It’s the “everything app” for messaging, friends and groups.

Yes, and that's exactly why it's factually incorrect to paint WhatsApp as the "everything app" for either a specific market or even "the world excluding the US".

> It’s the “everything app” for messaging, friends and groups.

I'd call that a "some things app" :)

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#184

Post by jejfjfjfjsj »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #118
Stagnant wrote: post #113

I see many people in this thread thinking that WhatsApp took off because of SMS costs, and while that may be true in some countries, at least here in Finland I think the biggest factor were group chats. By 2013-2014 basically every high school and college class had their own whatsapp group chat since it made sharing of videos/photos and keeping in touch with everyone so much easier. By 2017 i'd say the vast majority…

I live in California. For me, group chats are predominantly iMessage. FaceTime for video chat. I only know a handful of people with Android phones and they just suffer with poor quality media. I suspect it’s both regionally and class dependent however.

What do you mean by poor quality media?

WhatsApp and similar offer exactly the same kind of media transfers that iMessage offers.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#185

Post by Zak »

hocuspocus wrote: post #162
Zak wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was nearly every Android device, it wouldn't have been a minority in the mid 2010s. I don't have an authoritative citation, but complaints from carriers is often reported as the reason Google backed away from the default SMS client decision. Here's one example, but I've seen it from other publications: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/rip-google-hangouts-...

It really was a tiny minority, almost nobody bought Google phones at the time. The vast majority of Android users never even knew of the Hangouts SMS integration. I had a Nexus 4 and then 5 in 2013 and even though I was a big Hangouts user, I quickly disabled the SMS integration as it served no purpose in my case. It would be extremely weird for carriers to pressure Google on such a niche feature among Android users…

Here's a related story from the period about why Microsoft didn't try something similar with Skype: https://www.pcworld.com/article/447285/why-skype-still-cant-...

I can't help but think carriers were the reason Samsung didn't make Hangouts the default SMS client, which contributed to Hangouts not gaining momentum fast enough, which led to Google acquiring Jibe and launching other chat products.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#186

Post by spookie »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #148
spookie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple devices cost more in Europe, a jump high enough that you might as well consider the competition. I'm taking VAT into account. That and, well... Google has been more supportive of EU countries than Apple. Apple maps was useless in the EU for a long time. Plus horrendous support across the EU. If you are in a big city, yeah you will find an Apple Store, otherwise tough luck. It has nothing to do with craftmanship…

I think the only point that stands is the price. Apple products are indeed more expensive in France than in the US. However, Google Maps runs fine on iOS and you can purchase Apple products from other retailers and they will also handle warranty claims. None of my Apple products were bought from an Apple Store.

In my country I would only find such retailers in one of the big 3 cities.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#187

Post by emptysongglass »

out_of_protocol wrote: post #67
orf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the question was “does this exist anywhere other than in China?” China is a pretty specific and unique market. Perhaps the existence of such an “everything app” is related to that, explaining why it doesn’t exist elsewhere?

Telegram moving in this direction very fast. At this moment, telegram is used as news, blogs, file transfer app, chat etc. Recently added miniapps with real payments integration, "stars" as internal currency

You're getting downvoted mysteriously, as this is indeed true. All of Telegram's recent updates have been toward this purpose.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#188

Post by e1g »

zanderwohl wrote: post #159
e1g wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by “America” you mostly mean “USA”. In Mexico, everyone including the government, my bank, lawyers, and even telco would WhatsApp me.

In the English language "America" typically refers to the US because Anglos don't pretend North and South America are a single continent while separating Europe and Asia. There's no ambiguity when someone says "America".

It's comparable to saying "In Britain they speak English". This is correct enough for a sports bar but reveals ignorance of what the words "Britain" or "English" mean, plus a certain disregard for cultures.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#189

Post by insane_dreamer »

NoLinkToMe wrote: post #52
insane_dreamer wrote: post #8

What surprises me is that while WhatsApp has become an "everything" app in many parts of the world, much like WeChat in China, it has not done so in the US. In fact, I don't know anyone in the US who uses WhatsApp "internally" (the only times I use it is to communicate with people outside the US). The description of WhatsApp here is exactly what Elon wanted X to become (which clearly didn't and almost certainly now w…

It’s the first time I hear that Whatsapp is already an everything app. Ive used Whatsapp for about 14 years or so on a daily basis as my main app. But it’s just chat for me, and about 30% of my non-professional calls. And I use the share location feature a lot when meeting friends. But that’s about it. But banking, social media, ID/login, maps, albums, browsing etc I all do outside of whatsapp.

Here's where the comparison with WeChat maybe breaks down.

I lived in China for years, right during the time that WeChat (WeiXin) came out and evolved to become the "everything" app (vanquishing Weibo and others).

But I've only used WhatsApp for text messages and didn't even know that it had all these other features until I read this article.

So maybe it isn't really comparable to WeChat in that sense -- or maybe it is, I don't really know actually.

Re: How WhatsApp became an unstoppable global cultural force

#190

Post by insane_dreamer »

orf wrote: post #42
Veserv wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is not a "everything" platform in most of Europe. Do you open WhatsApp to play music, games, order takeout, order online, pay for rent? It is just a very popular chat application in most of Europe in contrast to a "everything" app like WeChat where you do all of those things. [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/payments/in

Nope, but by that definition almost no countries have an “everything app”. There’s like, one example in a very unique market? It’s the “everything app” for messaging, friends and groups.

WeChat is most definitely an "everything" app in the sense of this discussion: messaging, shopping, money transfers, bill payments, cab hailing, transportation (planes, trains, etc.), utilities, hospital appointments, customer service, news, etc. etc.

Source: I used it for years in China at the time it evolved into the "everything" app

Post reply on HN