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UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

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Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#181

Post by wat10000 »

benmmurphy wrote: post #172
lenerdenator wrote: post #70

The events of the last week are just what happens when a company decides to refuse to meet its customers in the marketplace of sane ideas. You could probably have gotten away with what UNH did if the money wasn't so ridiculous. Thompson himself had a compensation package worth $10.2 million[0] a year. It's reasonable to think that other c-suiters at the company, along with those of its parent organization, made simil…

We don't have an infinite supply of health care and there is a strong demand so there is always going to be some form of rationing going on. There are always going to be people with chronic life ruining conditions that are going to get a raw deal under whatever system you propose to distribute the limited supply of healthcare. It seems like someone is always going to have a justification to kill someone whether its a…

There’s a huge difference between the inevitable random crazies driven to madness because they can’t handle their unfortunate but unavoidable circumstances, and abusing the entire population on such a scale that when someone murders an executive in broad daylight, the prevailing public mood is “serves him right.”

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#182

Post by ridgeguy »

polalavik wrote: post #73
whatever1 wrote: post #59

I really don’t get why everyone involved is allowed to have hidden prices. It looks like a highway robbery. I had a relative visiting from Europe and they had to go to the urgent care for some blood and urine tests and consultation. They received a $2,500 bill! My relative told the hospital that they are leaving the country and offered to pay $250 or good luck collecting from abroad. Then something magical happened.…

I had to get a medication for a stomach bacteria called C. diff. It has bad relapse rates and its best to get it in check asap. What my doctor prescibed was the newest/best antibiotic for the issue, the other have worse recovery rates and way worse side effects. I have very good insurance. The price of the medication without insurance was about $5000, the price with very good insurance was about $1300. After redditin…

Manufacturers' discount coupons are a fairly common thing in the US. But if the patient is on any kind of government medical assistance program (Medicare & Medicaid being the two big ones), they're not eligible.

My bit of anecdata is the insured price of $1249/month for a drug whose manufacturer would sell me for $40/month - if only I weren't on Medicare. $14,988/year vs. $480/year. Sucks.

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#184

Post by davideous »

breadwinner wrote: post #138

Insurance companies are hardly the only ones at fault here. Hospitals and Pharma companies are guilty of price gouging [1]. When insurance pays hospitals hike up the prices. When the patient pays (such as for cosmetic or plastic surgery) the prices charged by hospitals and doctors are more reasonable. [1] https://www.dolthub.com/blog/2022-05-31-hospital-price-gougi...

Setting prices by supply-and-demand and having insurance "pay for whatever is needed regardless of the cost" are incompatible. Insurance blocks the pricing cost signal back to the patient. Insurance also prevents better doctors that provide better service from charging more because the patients will pay for it.

An example: about 20 years ago I had just a major medical plan and I was at urgent care for a problem. After diagnosing the likely problem and prescribing the solution, they were about to run some tests "just in case." When I told them I would be paying for the tests due to the major medical plan, they explained that the tests didn't have any benefit, so we didn't run them.

I don't know of a real solution to these problems.

A partial solution is exposing some of the cost to the insured to create an incentive to save (like what I had when I was paying for the tests). At my company, we fully pay for a high-deductible plan AND a give company-funded contribution to a Health Savings Account that mostly covers the per-person out-of-pocket max. If the employee does not spend the HSA money (which is their money in their account), it can be used for retirement savings... so they have an incentive to save. But once someone hits the out-of-pocket max, there is no more incentive to save.

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#185

Post by JumpCrisscross »

laimewhisps wrote: post #132
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you spoken to regular people not terminally online? They have no sympathy for the CEO Everyone I have spoken to has no sympathy for him as a CEO but sympathy for him as a human. He is wrong and the healthcare system is broken. But this was also murder. If your sense of empathy is so fucked that you’re pro murder, you need to speak to a professional. (If you’re struggling with this and don’t want to let hate tu…

He was killing people though, and if his death stops that, it's a net positive. His life is not worth more than the thousands he has ended for personal profit.

> if his death stops that, it's a net positive

One, it doesn’t. Two, this applies in loads of cases depending on your individual morality. (Intentionally-spicy takes: abortion providers. Medical researchers who experiment on animals. Farmers. Meat eaters. Anyone American because of our foreign military interventions.)

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#186

Post by wat10000 »

mgraczyk wrote: post #161

This guy's condition is tragic, but it's crazy to me that people can read this and come away thinking the insurance companies are the bad guys. Many drugs don't work, they are expensive. If there are no voices in the room saying "we will not pay for expensive drugs that do not work", then healthcare costs will continue spiraling out of control. Single payer healthcare will "solve" this by ensuring that the medication…

That must be why all the stories from countries with single payer health care go, “I got my medicine without any hassle or cost” rather than “I didn’t get my medicine and I died.”

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#187

Post by not_your_mentat »

no_wizard wrote: post #164
avn2109 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By far the most interesting aspect of this tale is the sudden rush of evidence (news stories, internet videos etc) that insurers have abruptly started paying claims which were previously denied or mired in paperwork. The comments of e.g. [0] and [1] are filled with people claiming this. The system is clearly rattled by the appearance of the people's justice, in a "Let them eat cake" kinda way, and is trying to make a…

This is an argument for the public to keep up the pressure. Perhaps it’s time for cleaners to clean

How much do you want to bet life insurance policies will start getting prejudicial about policy holders being executives at health insurance carriers?

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#188

Post by IncreasePosts »

griomnib wrote: post #35
paulgb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a New Yorker and I think that most of us actually do not believe that assassinations are a net benefit to society, no matter how dissatisfied with the health care system we are.

There’s an incredibly strong argument this particular person likely killed tens of thousand of people by his decisions to deny and delay care. This was not an employee carrying out orders from corporate, it’s the guy who is directly responsible for these deaths. This CEO is as much a mass murder as any other tyrant who commanded soldiers to commit atrocities. That will be part of the defense argument presented to the…

Is "just following orders" okay now?

Any healthcare worker at least deserves to be punched in the face for involving themselves in our broken system.

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#189

Post by mrangle »

lenerdenator wrote: post #70

The events of the last week are just what happens when a company decides to refuse to meet its customers in the marketplace of sane ideas. You could probably have gotten away with what UNH did if the money wasn't so ridiculous. Thompson himself had a compensation package worth $10.2 million[0] a year. It's reasonable to think that other c-suiters at the company, along with those of its parent organization, made simil…

> just what happens

It's not "just what happens". That's a politically opportunistic narrative that seeks to incite violence and murder.

No one knows why the CEO was killed.

None of this type of reasoning justifies or begins to explain the murder even if this were the reason in the shooter's head. Morals aside, it's nonsensical reasoning in total.

You're justifying and providing propaganda support for domestic terrorism in the United States.

Re: UnitedHealth's Effort to Deny Coverage for a Patient's Care (2023)

#190

Post by not_your_mentat »

mgraczyk wrote: post #161

This guy's condition is tragic, but it's crazy to me that people can read this and come away thinking the insurance companies are the bad guys. Many drugs don't work, they are expensive. If there are no voices in the room saying "we will not pay for expensive drugs that do not work", then healthcare costs will continue spiraling out of control. Single payer healthcare will "solve" this by ensuring that the medication…

Insurance executive self identified.
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