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Performance improvement plans are on the rise

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Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#181

Post by sunshowers »

Atotalnoob wrote: post #177
sunshowers wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have things going on in their lives! What if it's not the employee's performance but the manager's that's concerning — it's the manager who should get the PIP? What if it's the CEO's fault for creating an environment where many employees are demotivated — what if the CEO should be the one getting the PIP? Tech still, to this day, has a problem retaining women and URMs. Conceptions of individual performance are…

URM? I can’t find what that is

Underrepresented (racial and ethnic) minorities -- in the US context, it tends to mean people of color that aren't east or upper-caste south Asian.

I'm an upper-caste south Asian and it's fair to say that I have it much better than, say, Black people in tech on account of race. (Interestingly, I did have a fairly racist interaction once where this guy treated me like I had no idea what I was talking about, even though I'd spent several years working on $subject. From talking to Black folks my understanding is that it's the sort of thing they face all the time.)

Gender adds another layer to all this -- as someone who has been on both sides of that divide the difference has been quite noticeable. And the interaction of gender and race is all the more complicated -- Indian women face a level of scrutiny that neither Indian men nor white women do. And Indian trans women even more than Indian cis women. "Intersectionality" is a really nice term that captures this general idea.

It's a complicated set of interactions, but it's nonetheless real and worth carefully considering. Life's complicated and ambiguous.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#182

Post by sibeliuss »

deskr wrote: post #21
kareiva wrote: post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

How on earth can you be a good manager and not realize that saying "your performance is shit, we're going to fire you unless you take this course and we deem you've passed" is totally and utterly soul destroying to a person?

I mean, assuming the person's performance didn't meet standards, the truth hurts. It's too easy to float as an engineer, and salaries are expensive.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#183

Post by sibeliuss »

sunshowers wrote: post #108
therealdrag0 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Give them a rainbow sticker? It’s business among adults, performance matters. If you can’t meet expectations then it’s not a good fit. That’s part of life.

The alternative is to very seriously ask if the primary reason for underperformance lies with management rather than the individual. We are a social species and a large part of our behavior is are determined by our social environment. The PIP process does not incorporate this very basic fact about us.

I have seen both sides of this, but most often its legitimately performance related. As in, IC pushes no code, calls in all the time, is generally unreliable, etc etc. But the manager side is almost worse, because the bad manager multiplier effect extends to each of their reports. And if reports aren't sure about expectations, or communication is subpar, its easy to feel lost.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#184

Post by sibeliuss »

stogot wrote: post #173
kingbiz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does management ever get PIP'd? In my experience its lowly ICs that take the brunt of PIP culture.

Yes, I know of one right now that’s been coached and hasn’t improved and it will move to a PIP. Their boss said it won’t come as a surprise to them

Out of curiosity, what are typically the conditions for a PIP for managers?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#185

Post by rexer »

hn3er1q wrote: post #178
jmpman wrote: post #175

I work in a prestigious group within my company. The solutions architects across the company aspire to this group. As such, the cream rises to the top, and I work with amazing engineers. Unfortunately the 6% yearly PIP quota must be met, even within this group. So, you end up with the best of the best in the company fighting to stay off the PIP list. Recently my company started forcing this 6% PIP quota to be met wit…

It's interesting to ponder if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The knee jerk reaction is this is all very unhealthy but I wonder if it is really. Imagine we were talking about back-up quarterbacks in the NFL. That individual is probably one heck of a quarterback and athlete, and they did excellent in lesser teams which is what got them into the NFL in the first place. But, they are a back-up quarter back in the N…

I think the trouble is that most teams don’t need this level of performance. They don’t need the top .0001%. Those teams are the edge cases not even worth talking about.

And more importantly, not the ones you want to model your team after.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#187

Post by black_13 »

penguin_booze wrote: post #168

If you find yourself in PIP, the only plan you need to have, is to leave ASAP. It's practically impossible to "improve" anything. And their plan is to wear you out. From what I've seen, it's most commonly deployed as a retaliatory measure. From their perspective, it's rather cheap to deploy. From yours, however, it'll prove to be very expensive, on all counts. Oh, and if you're hoping to "get justice", or fight, some…

[dead]

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#188

Post by greatgib »

asdff wrote: post #74
arresin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you sue or something in that situation?

For what? You can be fired whenever in most jobs. Most you can do is tell the story on linkedin and make the manager look like an ass. No point in maintaining bridges that go straight to the dump.

Something like harassment maybe? Either there is an official redundancy plan and that would make sense, but otherwise it is quite the proof that the work is not in question but like a personal vendetta. Or that the director was trying to defame you by attempting to ruin your reputation with a conspiracy?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#189

Post by maest »

makk wrote: post #88

I'm pretty happy with how PIPs work. The first and last time I was put on a PIP I went into early retirement the next day. In doing so, I caught the VP Eng who did the PIP completely flat footed. It turns out they did the PIP against the advice of their boss, the CTO. Egg all over the VP's face. The VP got canned 6 months after that and had to scramble to find another job while I was at the beach.

I don't think that's anywhere close to how PIPs work for the vast majority pf people.

But congrats on your early retirement and incidental revenge, I guess?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#190

Post by [deleted] »

jodrellblank wrote: post #180
LoFiSamurai wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think a manager should handle the case where a company forces the manager to select one person from the team for a bogus (in bad faith) PIP?

From the view of the team the ideal manager is a shield overhead protecting them from the crap coming down from above, the manager should refuse and push back. From the view of “is this good for the company?” the manager should push back on bogus bad faith tasks and the structures which make them exist. I understand that from the manager’s own perspective their income might be priority one - but then I wonder if they…

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