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A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

arstechnica.com

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Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#181

Post by gramie »

biomcgary wrote: post #166
hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

About 15 years ago my wife needed a fair amount of dental work due to a dentist screwing up her mouth in childhood. We traveled to Brazil and got the work done by a dentist that my family knew and spent a week hanging out with my family there. The cost including travel and the dentist, etc. was far less that what the US dentist quoted and my wife hasn't had a dental problem since. The procedures were far less invasiv…

I had problems with a molar that had received a root canal about 20 years ago. The dentist told me that it had to come out, but I had several options:

-Leave the hole, and the surrounding teeth would gradually fill in the space (I still have all my wisdom teeth, so that wouldn't be an issue)

-Have a partial plate inserted

-Have an implant inserted

The insert was quoted at about USD $5000. I found that I could have it done in Costa Rica, by US-trained dentists, for less than $1,000.

I seriously considered the Costa Rica route, but ended up just going with the gap.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#182

Post by Netcob »

hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

I live in Germany, and I've developed a similar rule with doctors in general. But here I can use an even better rule of thumb - be extremely suspicious of anything that isn't covered by public health insurance. I'm sure other people have had different experiences, but I'm 40 and so far almost every time I had to pay out of pocket it turned out to be some controversial or even pseudoscientific BS. The last one was some weird back pain therapy - I wasted my time and money on that until I read some paper on it. Its conclusion was actually that the therapy "probably works", but when I actually read it, the data ranged from "inconclusive" to "not effective". And that was the paper the company selling machines for that therapy was linking to.

What worked in the end was - surprise - lifestyle changes.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#183

Post by Eisenstein »

rqtwteye wrote: post #104
codingwagie wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge amount of fraud in the dental space, even in places like NYC.

I think that’s all over the medical sector. Knee operations for which there is no proof of benefit, screenings where the result makes no difference, expensive back surgeries instead of physical therapy and exercise, expensive drugs instead of nutrition changes. There is just too much money to be made.

How much of this is a result of overselling, and how much a result of people wanting a quick, high-tech fix? If you read the article, the woman who is suing went to the implant place and with her mind already set on the implants and requested them. If that sort of market exists, people will serve it. The problem is when it is sold to people who wouldn't otherwise consider it (and when they are not qualified to do the work, as the article claims).

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#184

Post by krisoft »

lupusreal wrote: post #127
xyclos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 12, I was scheduled by my regular dentist to have two cavities filled. It was the first time I had anything negative in a dental checkup. We were very poor, so my dad was pissed that it was going to be almost $400 to get them filled. He found a different dentist that was supposed to be a bit cheaper, and I went to that one instead. He was shocked to hear that I had been scheduled for two fillings. Since I…

> I fear there's not really a good way to vet Dentists effectively since most people probably never find out that they've been scammed for years. I'd love to learn some new strategies though. It's something the government should be doing; running sting operations against dentists with compliants against them. Unfortunately, dentists and prosecutors are in the same social circles.

I like the idea of that proposal, but I'm not sure how it would work in practice.

The problem is that the crooked dentist will argue that the "bait" patient has in fact have cavities. And then if the prosecutor finds somehow convincing evidence that the patient does not actually have cavities the crooked dentist can change tactic and say it was a honest mistake on their part.

With other crimes where "sting operations" work the situation is much more clear cut. The target of the drug sting is either selling drugs or not selling drugs. If you find drugs you can easily prosecute them. With the dental scam even if you manage to catch them red handed once, it is still a long and complicated process to prove it was a scam and not a mistake.

Or alternatively we can legislate to make making mistakes with dental diagnosis illegal the same way having large batches of drugs is illegal. That will make the prosecution easier, but will have all kind of other negative consequences.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#186

Post by sdo72 »

Dentists in the U.S. are often driven by profit rather than patient care, much like many other healthcare providers. Over the past 20 years, I’ve seen more than ten dentists, and only one genuinely seemed to care about my dental health, doing everything necessary to save a tooth. She may have cared because we’re distantly related.

Here are a few examples from my experiences:

1. I went in for a routine cleaning, but they recommended $2,500 worth of unnecessary procedures. When I declined and asked for just the cleaning, the dentist spent less than five minutes on it.

2. Dentists seem overly eager to drill and fill, often doing poor-quality work that requires repeated visits. I still have six fillings from when I was young, and they've lasted for over 30 years.

3. For a minor broken corner on a tooth, one dentist recommended a $2,500 procedure (above my insurance coverage) and insisted on treating all my teeth for better care. I declined, but still received a $250 bill for the consultation. My previous dentist fixed it for $120 in cash.

4. My wife’s teeth had no visible signs of major cavities, yet one dentist filled six teeth. Fortunately, the fillings were minor and are still holding up after 10 years.

5. I have several friends with similar stories. For example, dentists often recommend extensive procedures like root canals on baby teeth, costing between $2,500 and $7,000. In one case, a root-canaled tooth fell out the very next day.

6. Orthodontists often put braces on young children, as early as age 6-8, even though in many other countries (like Korea), the average age is around 18. I’ve read stories of people who regret early braces, particularly when the wrong teeth were extracted.

The list goes on.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#187

Post by nox101 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #60
sameoldtune wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I started working at Amazon in 2014 I had a number of coworkers from India and Taiwan whose dentists had convinced them that they needed professional teeth cleanings every 3 months. I didn’t say anything as I am not a dental expert, but it felt like my coworkers were being taken advantage of. Like you I had an experience as a child with a dentist who my parents later found out was full of B.S.

Atleast a professional cleaning has an immediate positive impact, even if it is superficial. If I could afford it I would do them monthly. But I also have felt like I was being taken advantage of by dentists who had bills to pay. I also am pretty sure one caused pain on purpose because I had missed an appointment and rescheduled. With 15 years more life experience, if that were to happen again I would just leave.

Sounds like a great idea for a new startup. Teeth Salons. We've got Dry Bars that people pay for so why not? I'd consider going once a month if it wasn't too expensive and didn't take more than 20-30 mins.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#188

Post by avs733 »

cj wrote: post #18

This reminds me of when I went to a dentist in SF who told me I needed to have my wisdom teeth out. I did the initial exam, and then hesitated when it came to booking the procedure. The dentist noticed my hesitation, and said something along the lines of "And after the surgery, don't forget we'll also prescribe really great pain medication!" 10 years later my new dentist says the wisdom teeth are fine and to leave th…

I'll add - I have taken to asking for an incorrect second opinion. Did this by accident the first time and it has worked well since.

Dentis A says tooth on the left side needs a rootcanal.

Ask Dentist B for a second opinion on the tooth on the other side of my mouth.

If they 'agree' I probably don't need either one.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#189

Post by queuebert »

jacobr1 wrote: post #55
queuebert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being separate, it seems distinctly less evidence based as well.

Not sure that is the case. The base science and recommended practices seems pretty much as a solid as any other speciality (imperfect as they all are). It really is the case that cavities are bad. We understand what causes them, how they grow, risk factors and how to treat them. But ... the business model and incentives are different. A general practice MD, doesn't get a cut of revenue when they write a prescription.…

MDs most definitely have incentives to intervene as much as possible.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_value_unit

If you ever wonder why some doctors order any test they can possibly, even remotely, justify, this is why.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#190

Post by misja111 »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #38

Unfortunately there's nothing new about this scam; it happened to one of my dad's friends 20 years ago. I think it's wise to treat anything you are told by a dental or healthcare professional with a healthy dose of skepticism as your interests are often misaligned.

Agreed, this scam is not new at all.

When you have doubts about your dentist's diagnose, just visit another one to get a second opinion.

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