M4 MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#181

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

opjjf wrote: post #5

It seems they also update the base memory on MacBook Air: > MacBook Air: The World’s Most Popular Laptop Now Starts at 16GB > MacBook Air is the world’s most popular laptop, and with Apple Intelligence, it’s even better. Now, models with M2 and M3 double the starting memory to 16GB, while keeping the starting price at just $999 — a terrific value for the world’s best-selling laptop.

Well, the issue for me with memory on these new models is that for the Max, it ships with 36GB and NO expandable memory option. To get more memory that's gated behind a $300 CPU upgrade (plus the memory cost).

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#182

Post by oDot » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

Rohansi wrote: post #107

manaskarekar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M3 Max was 400GBps, this is 540GBps. Truly an outstanding case for unified memory. DDR5 doesn't come anywhere near.

Apple is using LPDDR5 for M3. The bandwidth doesn't come from unified memory - it comes from using many channels. You could get the same bandwidth or more with normal DDR5 modules if you could use 8 or more channels, but in the PC space you don't usually see more than 2 or 4 channels (only common for servers). Unrelated but unified memory is a strange buzzword being used by Apple. Their memory is no different than ot…

Isn't unified memory* a crucial part in avoiding signal integrity problems?

Servers do have many channels but they run relatively slower memory

* Specifically, it being on-die

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#183

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

RobinL wrote: post #154

Can anyone comment on the viability of using an external SSD rather than upgrading storage? Specifically for data analysis (e.g. storing/analysing parquet files using Python/duckdb, or video editing using divinci resolve). Also, any recommendations for suitable ssds, ideally not too expensive? Thank you!

The USB-C ports should be quite enough for that. If you are using a desktop Mac, such as an iMac, Mini, or the Studio and Pro that will be released later this week, this is a no-brainer - everything works perfectly.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#184

Post by dijit » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

jchw wrote: post #141

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

Laptops in general are just better than they used to be, with modern CPUs and NVMe disks. I feel exactly the same seeing new mobile AMD chips too, I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with my Ryzen 7040-based laptop for at least a few years. Apple's M1 came at a really interesting point. Intel was still dominating the laptop game for Windows laptops, but generational improvements felt pretty lame. A whole lot of money for m…

> Laptops in general are just better than they used to be, with modern CPUs and NVMe disks. I feel exactly the same seeing new mobile AMD chips too, I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with my Ryzen 7040-based laptop for at least a few years.

You say that, but I get extremely frustrated at how slow my Surface Pro 10 is (with an Ultra 7 165U).

It could be Windows of course, but this is a much more modern machine than my Macbook Air (M1) and feels like it's almost 10 years old at times in comparison. - despite being 3-4 years newer.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#185

Post by rconti » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

jart wrote: post #159

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

I hate to say it but that's like a boomer saying they never felt the need to buy a computer, because they've never wished their pen and paper goes faster. Or a UNIX greybeard saying they don't need a Mac since they don't think its GUI would make their terminal go any faster. If you've hit a point in your life where you're no longer keeping up with the latest technological developments like AI, then of course you don'…

I think the difference is that AI is a very narrow niche/hobby at the moment. Of course if you're in that niche having more horsepower is critical. But your boomer/greybeard comparisons fall flat because they're generally about age or being set in your ways. I don't think "not being into AI image generation" is (currently) about being stuck in your ways.

To me it's more like 3d printing as a niche/hobby.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#186

Post by prmoustache » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

> Perhaps it’s my age, or perhaps it’s just the architecture of these new Mac chips are just so damn good.

I feel the same of my laptop of 2011 so I guess it is partly age (not feeling the urge to always have the greatest) and partly it is non LLM and gaming related computing is not demanding enough to force us to upgrade.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#187

Post by carlosjobim » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

skellington wrote: post #91

efields wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hypothesis is Apple is mostly right about their base model offerings. > I mean, I have a MacBook air with 16gb of ram and it's honestly working pretty well to this day. I don't do "much" on it though but not many people do. If an HN user can get along with 16gb on their MacBook Air for the last X years, most users were able to get by with 8gb.

It's just a tactic to get a higher average price while being able to advertise a lower price. What makes it infuriating is memory is dirt cheap. That extra 8GB probably costs them $10 at most, but would add to utility and longevity of their hardware quite a bit. They are supposed to be "green" but they encourage obsolescence.

People looking for low prices buy PC, they don't even consider Mac. Then they can have a computer with all the "higher numbers", which is more important than getting stuff done.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#188

Post by baq » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #177

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

It's so nice being able to advise a family member who is looking to upgrade their intel Mac to something new, and just tell them to buy whatever is out, not worry about release dates, not worry about things being out of date, and so on. The latest of whatever you have will be so much better than the intel one, and the next advances will be so marginal, that it's not even worth looking at a buyer's guide.

M3 Air with 16gb (base config as of today) is potentially a decade’s worth of computer. Amazing value.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#189

Post by yurishimo » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:55 PM UTC

opjjf wrote: post #5

It seems they also update the base memory on MacBook Air: > MacBook Air: The World’s Most Popular Laptop Now Starts at 16GB > MacBook Air is the world’s most popular laptop, and with Apple Intelligence, it’s even better. Now, models with M2 and M3 double the starting memory to 16GB, while keeping the starting price at just $999 — a terrific value for the world’s best-selling laptop.

It'll be interesting to see the reaction of tech commentators about this. So many people have been screaming at Apple to increase the base RAM and stop price gouging their customers on memory upgrades. If Apple Intelligence is the excuse the hardware team needed to get the bean counters on board, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth!

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#190

Post by Tepix » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 3:55 PM UTC

Rohansi wrote: post #107

manaskarekar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M3 Max was 400GBps, this is 540GBps. Truly an outstanding case for unified memory. DDR5 doesn't come anywhere near.

Apple is using LPDDR5 for M3. The bandwidth doesn't come from unified memory - it comes from using many channels. You could get the same bandwidth or more with normal DDR5 modules if you could use 8 or more channels, but in the PC space you don't usually see more than 2 or 4 channels (only common for servers). Unrelated but unified memory is a strange buzzword being used by Apple. Their memory is no different than ot…

For comparison, a Threadripper Pro 5000 workstation with 8x DDR4 3200 has 204.8GB/s of memory bandwidth. The Threadripper Pro 7000 with DDR5-5200 can achieve 325GB/s.

And no, manaskarekar, the M4 Max does 546 GB/s not GBps (which would be 8x less!).