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Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

cosmowenman.substack.com

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Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#181

Post by amatecha »

diggan wrote: post #21
mmooss wrote: post #9

Anyone in the world with an internet connection can view, interact with, and download the British Museum’s 3D scan of the Rosetta Stone, for example. The public can freely access hundreds of scans of classical sculpture from the National Gallery of Denmark, and visitors to the Smithsonian’s website can view, navigate, and freely download thousands of high-quality scans of artifacts ranging from dinosaur fossils to th…

> Has anyone used these in games? No doubt someone has put some of them into games. However, most likely not in it's original shape/form, as the scans usually produce highly inefficiently (but high resolution, great for renders) meshes. The meshes from scans tend to be a mess, and when inserting a 3D model for games, you care a lot about how optimized the meshes are, and that the mesh has a low polygon count as other…

3d scanning is a pretty common technique to get some example geometry for stuff in games. It's not difficult to retopologize the scans to work better in a game engine. I don't know much about those pipelines though, but either way 3d scanning is super popular in the industry. Check this for example https://sketchfab.com/blogs/community/retopologise-3d-scans-...

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#183

Post by ruthmarx »

sokoloff wrote: post #154
_aavaa_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point. Your top 50 are going to stay your top 50. If you've always wanted to see the Mona Lisa in person you're not going to change your plan because you saw an image of it.

My top 50 to see in person would definitely change if 25 of them can be experienced in VR. (I might still go in person to my top 3, but there's a lot of nearly even exchange among spots 4-100.)

VR isn't that amazing yet, you may as well just sit close to a big screen curved TV with earphones if going in person isn't ultimately that important.

If the smells, sights, people you meet, experience including entering the country and flying, food, traffic, general cultural things etc are not important, why even have it on your list?

Travel should be about the journey as much as the destination, when possible.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#184

Post by mavhc »

holowoodman wrote: post #91
tomrod wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the standard Music Industry response to Napster, alive and well decades later. "Make the information hard to get! We own it!" Never realizing that sampling of the information makes it just that much more prestigious and desirable to us, the unwashed masses, willing to pay to visit a museum that has AMAZING ORIGINAL THINGS. If you start with the assumption that every view is a lost sale, you're going to have a rea…

Actually, imho, the AMAZING ORIGINAL THINGS are actually useless. You can not touch them, get close, rotate them, look at them properly, take your time. You are just number 29387 that day visiting the Mona Lisa, you get 5s to view it, then the line moves on. A high-res photo or 3d-scan allows you to do all those things (maybe except really touching them). So aside from the emotional benefit of having been near the re…

I stood in front of it for at least 10 minutes, the trick is to go in the evenings. Being behind a crappy plastic shield didn't help though

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#185

Post by yardstick »

bhickey wrote: post #133
yardstick wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate: Maybe they were worried about sales of photos of the bust, and other products of the bust but not created using the scans? Could one take all the scans and produce a coffee table book of photos similar to what the gift shops often sell? Honestly the whole gift shop argument is weird. I have no sympathy for them. You can get plenty of knockoffs now if you wanted: the world is full of Statue of Liberty…

Approximately no one is going to buy a museum gift shop coffee table book anywhere other than at a museum gift shop.

Exactly! The amount of worry they have is stupid and nonsensical and ultimately used to disguise their real reasons of just not wanting to share anything.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#187

Post by willy_k »

bambax wrote: post #105
myrmidon wrote: post #48

This is utterly puzzling to me. I just don't understand how you sit on the museums side of the trial on this, without seriously questioning your own position and conceding immediately. They were basically arguing that they are entitled to hide those scan artifacts to better protect their gift shop?! How can they even reconcile those arguments with preserving the artists legacy/serving the common good? I'm also surpri…

Welcome to France! France is built on the idea that the public can't be trusted, has not really reached adulthood (won't ever) and needs to be coached by an army of civil servants whose job is to protect the State and its finances. It's not corruption, exactly; it's the idea that the interests of the State are paramount, and everything else doesn't really matter. If the State sells reproductions of Rodin's work, well…

> France is built on the idea that the public can't be trusted, has not really reached adulthood (won't ever) and needs to be coached by an army of civil servants whose job is to protect the State and its finances.

I believe the term for that is “nanny state”.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#188

Post by ballenf »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #42
Symbiote wrote: post #24

> The court ruled that the museum’s revenue, business model, and supposed threats from competition and counterfeiting are irrelevant to the public’s right to access its scans, a dramatic rejection of the museum’s position It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.) I was initially sympathetic to…

This same person fought for years to get the Berlin Egyptian museum to release 3D scans of the famous Nefertiti bust. The museum also claimed it would undermine its revenue streams through the gift shop, but as the case progressed, that turned out to be very misleading - the museum had made less than 5000 EUR over ten years from 3D scans. https://reason.com/2019/11/13/a-german-museum-tried-to-hide-...

What's to stop a replica maker from scanning a replica bought from the gift shop? I am very skeptical that a trinket purchaser will care about or be able to identify any scanning errors introduced.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#189

Post by geokon »

stereo wrote: post #50
geokon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an interesting example where this has been problematic is OpenStreetMap. They can't ingest a lot of government data b/c their project requires a relicense with their attribution-requirement (where all users are forced to have an ugly OSM bumper sticker on their maps)

What you call an ugly bumper sticker is credit where it is due, but also an important recruitment mechanism for new mappers, which improves the map. The /copyright page is our biggest landing page on the website, even above the base / page. Attribution is also a requirement of many proprietary map providers.

yes, I've misclicked the hidden link many times as well

The credit is due to the volunteers or governments that created the data, and not the project that collates it (their names are not displayed). The logic behind wikipedia doesn't translate to OSM b/c OSM is providing data to be reused

If this requirement wasn't there in the first place then OSM maps would have been the default go-to map and a household name like wikipedia. You wouldn't need to force an ad in every map to self-promote.

> Attribution is also a requirement of many proprietary map providers

the project had the opportunity to do something truly different and unique and chose not to... what a missed opportunity.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#190

Post by semi-extrinsic »

idunnoman1222 wrote: post #164
cormorant wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In an ironic development, the judges specifically reasoned against musée Rodin’s trade secrecy claim by citing its 3D digitization funding applications to the Ministry of Culture, in which the museum stipulated its commitment to publishing its scans. The museum had attempted to hide these funding applications from us and the court, telling the court they did not exist.

The Rodin museum is my favorite. They sell a very limited selection of his sculptures at the gift shop and some of the sculptures. You literally just can’t get near them. They’re in the middle of a fountain. I would certainly 3-D print the scans and have them at my house. I don’t know how that would take any income away from the museum.

I've not been to the Rodin museum, but this summer I visited the Hirshhorn sculpture garden in DC. One of their exhibits is one of the 12 original casts of Rodin's "burghers of Calais".

Except this summer they were doing some maintenance work, so this wonderful huge bronze sculpture was moved off to a corner, fenced off and surrounded by picnic tables where people sat to eat ice cream. The contrasting juxtaposition was just incredible to observe.

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