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MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

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Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#181

Post by m3047 »

eru wrote: post #31
phoe-krk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The differences between governments and megacorps are dwindling and the two are becoming much more alike one another. We already live in global technofeudalism.

Alas, no. By and large, governments are still vastly less competent than multinational corporations. MNCs also don't force you to pay taxes or buy their products.

MNCs get governments to force you to buy their products. I've dealt with governments where the only way to send or receive docs was MS Word. Sometimes saving in MS Word format works (LibreOffice), sometimes not.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#182

Post by ActorNightly »

vundercind wrote: post #105
hypeatei wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've made it a practice to switch of the router while installing or updating macOS or ios. Why are you still using those OSes? That seems like a lot of work for something you paid for.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

>cause all operating systems are terrible

This is code words for "Im emotionally invested into my choice for non logical reasons and its very hard for me to admit I have made the wrong choice".

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#183

Post by ActorNightly »

herpdyderp wrote: post #161
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

In early 2010s this was sometimes the case.

In modern days, you can daily drive linux without issues. If you were having issues, it was most likely you were doing something wrong, or you were using a company configured laptop that the IT department didn't set up right.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#184

Post by ActorNightly »

aunty_helen wrote: post #150
vundercind wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try every couple years. I tried KDE on Fedora last time (I hate gnome since 3) and could still crash various KDE apps with drag-n-drop operations—I’d trained myself never to use those outside narrow situations on Windows and Linux years ago because they usually broke things or did something stupid, but am now accustomed to them both working and doing something reasonable, so I spot those issues in a hurry when I us…

Hard in this camp too. The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment. When you use your computer for work, that bill gets big quick and sometimes it's an inconvenience you just can't afford. MacOS, for all it's faults, can be tamed with little snitch and a slower update cycle, and then you have a relatively solid system. There's still some things to hate, like when I take my airp…

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work.

Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to mess something up. You don't have to go the extra lengths to justify it lol.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#185

Post by ActorNightly »

iknowstuff wrote: post #153
baq wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years. The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could…

it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows. It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE. It’s most similar to gnome. if you’re the kinda guy who sees it as user hostile, I’d wager it’s because you refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm and demand things to be how they were on your windows pc 30 years ago. what os/dwm do u use

>It’s beautifully designed

I hope you understand that when you say this, its pretty easy to see that you are solely in the ideological camp of liking Apple, not a rational one.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#186

Post by consteval »

aunty_helen wrote: post #150
vundercind wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try every couple years. I tried KDE on Fedora last time (I hate gnome since 3) and could still crash various KDE apps with drag-n-drop operations—I’d trained myself never to use those outside narrow situations on Windows and Linux years ago because they usually broke things or did something stupid, but am now accustomed to them both working and doing something reasonable, so I spot those issues in a hurry when I us…

Hard in this camp too. The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment. When you use your computer for work, that bill gets big quick and sometimes it's an inconvenience you just can't afford. MacOS, for all it's faults, can be tamed with little snitch and a slower update cycle, and then you have a relatively solid system. There's still some things to hate, like when I take my airp…

The reason you have to tinker with MacOS and not Linux is because you're fine with how MaxOS is set up. So you waste your time in Linux getting it to behave like MacOS.

Obviously if you go into it with the assumption MacOS is correct and the more like MacOS you are, the better, then Linux distros will fail horribly.

People do this with Windows, too. If you go into it expecting Windows-isms you're gonna be very disappointed. And such "isms" aren't actually good at all - usually they suck. But because you already know them, they aren't "isms" anymore, they're now expectations.

If you go back to the very first few times you used MacOS (or OSX at the time), you'll realize there was a lot of shit that surprised you. You adapted, and in some cases have actually come to PREFER functionality that sucks. And now you expect it, and that's the problem.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#187

Post by ActorNightly »

baq wrote: post #149
vundercind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years. The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could…

>and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed

You can do it in Linux with scripts. I had it on my old laptop when I had Manjaro on it. Basically disable any action on script close, then write a custom service that listens for an event and puts the computer to sleep. Only thing is you have to press the power button to wake it, but it worked well.

In general, I have been using work issues Macs, and I tend to agree - they are pure shit. I wouldn't even call them good hardware. People seem to forget how mac thought it was a good idea to make the esc button a virtual one on the touchbar. I had 3 work replacements, first one fried chip due to an "incompatible" usbc hub, the other 2 started swelling batteries. In every single case, I ended up losing a small amount of work I haven't backed up (like a shell script), since you can't replace the hard drives.

Currently on the latest iteration of MBP 14 inch, the hardware seems good so far. Battery life claims are overrated - with slack, bunch of browser tabs and VSCode I get max 4 hours, but to be fair, this is the lightest laptop that Ive had that can do that (I used to have a much larger Thinkpad that could do CAD for 4 hours on battery)

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#188

Post by pndy »

KronisLV wrote: post #159
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

> and visually has a great deal of Polish It's great that they translated the UI in that language! Jokes aside, I use a mix of Windows 10, Windows 11, Linux Mint (have had a few DEB and RPM distros on the desktop too) and macOS. I have to say, that all of them are serviceable. Windows is sometimes quite annoying to deal with, but has a lot of software for it (the likes of PowerToys, MobaXTerm, WinSCP, System Informer…

> It's great that they translated the UI in that language!

Bit offtopic but since you nudged it:

The oldest Polish localization of MacOS was done by a private company that insisted on using more "appropriate linguistically" terms that have roots in the 70s Polish IT. Tho, some people claimed it was just an attempt to separate Apple's system from Microsoft's even more dramatically. And for example instead of "icon" - "ikona" that translation introduced "stamp - "znaczek"; "edit" menu item - "edycja" (sometimes "edytuj", depending on program) was "change" - "zmiana", "folder" that stayed as it is become "teczka", "briefcase". The most prominent example is the "cancel" translation, which elsewhere become "anuluj" but the team opted for "abandon", "cease" - "poniechaj", tho some argue it should be "desist" - "zaniechaj".

The first official Leopard translation followed let's say, the 'industry standard', tho "desktop" still is being called there "biurko" while Linux and Windows uses term "pulpit" which is more close to "dashboard".

The discourse that happen around "cancel" translation is still bring up on few occasions, as an example of trying to preserve origins of that old IT glossary and also of being nonconformistic to the ridiculous levels for some weird personal reasons.

Echoes of that translation can be seen in the Polish KDE localization - there's one contributor who insists for using these rather obscure and weird terms: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404286 and since there's no official community nor team (to my knowledge), that translation gets approved and makes KDE looking weird for someone coming from Windows

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#189

Post by consteval »

iknowstuff wrote: post #153
baq wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years. The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could…

it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows. It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE. It’s most similar to gnome. if you’re the kinda guy who sees it as user hostile, I’d wager it’s because you refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm and demand things to be how they were on your windows pc 30 years ago. what os/dwm do u use

> it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows

That's an incredibly low bar. Windows 95 is cohesive and stable as compared to Windows.

> It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE

It's beautiful. Designed? I don't know about that. In my experience, it takes significantly less clicks, swipes, or keypresses to perform action in KDE as opposed to pretty much everything.

I consider that good desktop design, because these are tools. Less work = better tool.

> It’s most similar to gnome

Yeah, and Gnome is awful IMO. Some things just can't be done without installing extensions. The workflow is very "my way or the highway". Seemingly simple actions require submenus of submenus. The UI design isn't dense enough, so a bunch of info is just missing.

> refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm

The difference here is I can easily replicate what macOS and gnome have going in KDE. Because KDE is flexible, and those aren't. Why would I though, when I can instead abuse KDE for efficiency gains in workflows? I'd much rather do that.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#190

Post by mh- »

ActorNightly wrote: post #184
aunty_helen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard in this camp too. The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment. When you use your computer for work, that bill gets big quick and sometimes it's an inconvenience you just can't afford. MacOS, for all it's faults, can be tamed with little snitch and a slower update cycle, and then you have a relatively solid system. There's still some things to hate, like when I take my airp…

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work. Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to me…

> I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux.

It doesn't feel charitable to call people sharing their experience "spreading the lie". You're all over this thread talking to people that way. If you're trying to make the case that desktop Linux no longer has this characteristic, this isn't the way to go about it.

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