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The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

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Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#181

Post by chiefalchemist »

throw16180339 wrote: post #131
chiefalchemist wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see those, but I don't imagine there's even a fair chance of them happening. In my mind, shortly after the WordCamp US things should have leveled out. Someone should have pulled Matt aside and said, "OK, you vented. Pissed all over The Community who showed up, but you vented. Let's get this back on the rails..." It's possible that was said. But Matt's listening skills aren't good and lately have gotten worse. T…

CEOs can get away with a lot if they're successful; Elon Musk is a good example. That only goes so far, though. If he wins the trademark lawsuit, he can probably do whatever he wants. If he loses, there's a shareholder lawsuit, or he continues escalating then at some point he'll be removed. One can only hope.

Yeah, Musk and others come to mind. But WP is supposed to OSS. Musk didn't build his empire on the backs of volunteers. Musk has built multiple successful ventures. Matt has step in it once.

In the context OSS Matt's behaviour is deplorable. His insistence on digging a deeper and deeper hole is freightening.

It's digital self-emmolation. It's professional suicide.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#182

Post by chiefalchemist »

FreakLegion wrote: post #145
throw16180339 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the Wordpress Foundation will remain under his control. The Automattic board ( https://automattic.com/board/ ), however, has four other members, so it's possible they'll remove him. They can't all be true believers in his Delenda est WP Engine agenda. One can only hope.

You'd need to see the cap table and articles of incorporation to know if the board has any power. Salesforce invested $300m in the D round and doesn't have a seat, for example. Phil Black and maybe Toni Schneider's seats might be protected, but Matt could have the voting power to replace the other two at will. Current drama aside, good for him if that's the case. Very few founders maintain absolute control past a Ser…

Good for him?

He's just ruined that possibility for just about anyone else going forward.

Praise him? No way.

Ironic isn't it? He cries about the scourge known as PE, and he's single handedly f*ked every investor-seeking founder everywhere going forward.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#183

Post by chiefalchemist »

shprd wrote: post #165
aimazon wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're citing Matt but Matt has been proven to be untrustworthy. For example, his claim of many year long negotiations includes a claim that he had delivered a term sheet to WP Engine in May, but that claim was disproven by himself, no such term sheet was delivered. Additionally, the contributions that he counts from WP Engine are only those included in the "Five for the Future" program which Matt administrates. The…

> millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense. > plugin development ACF ACF is their own asset I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not?

WPE has other employees dedicated to WP and The Community. I'm not defending WPE but just because they don't contribute in a way MM wants doesn't mean they don't contribute. Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous.

Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that.

p.s. Matt should be careful what he wishes for. If WPE or anyone contributes they're going to want a voice, a seat at the table. Is Matt willing to share control? If the answer is no, then that is the root problem here.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#184

Post by immibis »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #139
wise_young_man wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Automattic is a privately held for profit company. One could argue that it’s a private equity too. Just using different words to twist a narrative.

This is not the same. Private equity extracts as an investment, Automattic is an ecosystem participant (that happens to be privately held) that actively contributes to the community. That doesn’t mean Matt hasn’t taken things too far (I leave that to be determined by civil courts and the Wordpress community, no dog in the fight myself), but there is a difference, and it is very important to clearly delineate who is r…

Automattic is now attempting to extract an investment, and in a much worse way than WPE ever did.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#185

Post by mjburgess »

lexicality wrote: post #13

It's very funny that Matt's original complaint was that WPEngine didn't contribute enough, and he has now banned them from contributing and stolen what they had previously provided

That's the official story he gave. But no aspect of his behaviour is consistent with this being true.

He's a guy running a multi-billion USD company annoyed at a ~bn USD company for capturing some of the profits from "his" "open" source software.

It's corporate warfare given the thinnest possible moral veneer. He was an investor in WP Engine.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#186

Post by luuurker »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #102
luuurker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] and stolen [...] I'm not happy with the mess and Matt's behaviour, but you can't steal free code.

Where in the world, how the hell did you get the idea that stealing free code isn't stealing?

The code was shared under a GPL license. If the license allows you to reuse, fork, etc, then it makes no sense to accuse you of "stealing".

Obviously there's more to it here as they've also taken over the plugin's reviews, users, etc, but the code is GPL.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#187

Post by luuurker »

lolinder wrote: post #75
luuurker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] and stolen [...] I'm not happy with the mess and Matt's behaviour, but you can't steal free code.

He's stolen the ACF permalink, reviews, download count, active installations (including the ability to push auto updates), etc. Sure, the code is free, but that's still a lot of theft. https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/

I don't disagree with that, but the comment I've replied to said they were stealing "what they had previously provided". The stuff "provided" was code shared under a GPL license.

Maybe it's a technicality, but the code is open source and you can do whatever you want it it, provided that you respect the GPL license.

There's a lot to criticise Matt for here, but you can't accuse him of stealing GPL code. Like, that's one of the points of that license.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#188

Post by shprd »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #183
shprd wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense. > plugin development ACF ACF is their own asset I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not? WPE has other employees dedicated to WP and The Community. I'm not defending WPE but just because they don't contribute in a way MM wants doesn't mean they don't contribute. Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that. p.s. Matt should be careful what he wishes for. If WPE or anyo…

> Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous.

Where did I say they don't contribute? I said they don't contribute beyond their mouth

> You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing?

It's a marketing strategy, first and foremost. If they didn't offer it, an alternative would come along and attract the crowd.

You know what's disingenuous? Claiming it's a contribution when you're doing it as marketing strategy or as part of sales funnel.

You can't cash a check twice.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#189

Post by luuurker »

xuki wrote: post #72
luuurker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] and stolen [...] I'm not happy with the mess and Matt's behaviour, but you can't steal free code.

This is not about the code. WP is free to fork it with a new name. This is replacing the old plugin with all its reviews, download count.

The part of the comment I meant to reply to was this: "[...] and stolen what they had previously provided".

You're right about the reviews, users, url, etc, but what was "previously provided" was code with a GPL license. You can't "steal" that.

The list of things to criticise Matt for is long, but you can't accuse him of stealing open source code.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#190

Post by mtndew4brkfst »

shprd wrote: post #188
chiefalchemist wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not? WPE has other employees dedicated to WP and The Community. I'm not defending WPE but just because they don't contribute in a way MM wants doesn't mean they don't contribute. Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that. p.s. Matt should be careful what he wishes for. If WPE or anyo…

> Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Where did I say they don't contribute? I said they don't contribute beyond their mouth > You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? It's a marketing strategy, first and foremost. If they didn't offer it, an alternative would come along and attract the crowd. You know what's disingenuous? Claiming it's a contribution when you're doing it as mark…

So if I go successfully make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel, and it is exclusively motivated by furthering my business needs instead of altruism, but happens to incidentally benefit others too - do you consider that a "contribution" under your mental model? If not, what's the distinction?
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