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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#181

Post by crazygringo »

akira2501 wrote: post #48
tencentshill wrote: post #21

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

Yep. Then consumers can decide which one is best for them. Then they can compete. Then the best features with the best pricing, no only for customers, but the cut for developers, can be discovered. You pay such a high price for living in the walled garden. I honestly can't imagine why you would _want_ it.

How can I decide which store is best for me when the only store I can get Spotify from is the Spotify store? And the only store with Instagram is the Meta store?

If every store had to make every app available, then sure I'd have choice and maybe that could be super cool.

But nobody's talking about that. We're talking about a world where major corporations will make their apps available only through their own stores and can refuse to do refunds and make canceling subscriptions a nightmare.

I don't see any increased choice at all. All I see is corporations forcing their own stores, that will probably be far less consumer-friendly, and users won't have any increased choice at all.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#182

Post by clhodapp »

flutas wrote: post #145
wccrawford wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't "all apps on Google Play". It's "all apps developed by Google that integrate with the Google Play system."

Nah, it's absolutely all apps on google play. > For a period of three years, Google will permit third-party Android app stores to access the Google Play Store's catalog of apps so that they may offer the Play Store apps to users. For apps available only in the Google Play Store (i.e., that are not independently available through the third-party Android app store), Google will permit users to complete the download of…

Yeah, it just feels like it's opting developers into a business relationship with third party app stores that they may not want, by virtue of their business relationship with Google.

Look at it a different way: if Google themselves did this as opt out, developers would be screaming bloody murder about how this wasn't the terms of service they agreed to.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#183

Post by immibis »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92
ethbr1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

Apple maintains a fully closed platform, while Google appears open yet is closed in practice. Like how Windows bundled IE, meaning that alternative browsers were never used in practice - the EU made them add a browser selection page.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#184

Post by TrianguloY »

clhodapp wrote: post #4

> and it must give rival third-party app stores access to the full catalog of Google Play apps That one feels a step too far to me. It seems like it should be the developer's job to share their app with third party stores, not Google's.

Perhaps, but that will mean that you will be able to download the official apks from other places, which is what aurora store does but without having to use a google account (probably, but not sure about that).

Not sure how that will work for paid apps, but for free apps...maybe it's good?

I have mixed opinions here though (as a user and as a developer)

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#185

Post by johnnyanmac »

Timshel wrote: post #42
tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

It's not just allowing alternative stores, it's stuff like: - Stop requiring Google Play Billing for apps distributed on the Google Play Store (the jury found that Google had illegally tied its payment system to its app store) - Let Android developers tell users about other ways to pay from within the Play Store - Let Android developers link to ways to download their apps outside of the Play Store - Let Android devel…

- wow, this is an exact case Apple more or less won in Apple v Epic. They got some minor slap on the wrist about steering but they still got around that. Apple must have paid their judge off big time

- Yup, this is the steering that Apple "lost".

>Starting January 16, developers can apply for an entitlement to provide a link within their app to a website the developer owns or is responsible for. The entitlement can only be used for iOS or iPadOS apps in the United States App Store.

There's so many stipulations to getting this approved that it's hard to call it a win. Just more delays

- good, but ofc irrelevant on Apple for now.

- And good. Somewhat relevant for Apple but the stipulations above make this hard.

I mostly hope this precedent can be used against future Apple proceedings to get that store opened up.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#186

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

pfdietz wrote: post #174

> Stop requiring Google Play Billing for apps distributed on the Google Play Store (the jury found that Google had illegally tied its payment system to its app store) Woot! I'll be able to buy books in the Kindle app again.

But not on iOS.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#187

Post by nerdix »

lancesells wrote: post #88
dnissley wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I would argue that Google's platform was open enough in that it was possible to download and install alternative app stores. They shouldn't need to do most of the things that are being requested here, like distribute play store apps in those alternate stores or change their requirements about what payment systems are used in apps downloaded through their app store. For the most part I think they should stil…

I think the difference is Google's platform is also on other manufacturers devices? If Android only existed on Pixel devices it could be different.

Why should that matter? If anything, shouldn't that mean that Google doesn't have a monopoly on Android apps in the way that Apple has on iOS apps because the device manufacturer can pre-install their own store on their devices? Like Galaxy Store on Samsung devices

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#188

Post by flykespice »

mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

They just want max profits without paying any fees.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#189

Post by NotPractical »

whimsicalism wrote: post #29
tencentshill wrote: post #21

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

Right, just like how they've done on desktop environments

That's not really a valid comparison because the Microsoft Store and the macOS App Store don't allow third party stores on them. You have to "sideload" any alternative stores/apps you want. To be clear I doubt the hellscape described by OP will come to fruition but still.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#190

Post by immibis »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #54
talldayo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it started out this way, from the beginning, and developers accepted it. Developers did not accept it. Some did, but any amount does not constitute complete acceptance. From the very beginning, iOS had people developing alternatives to the App Store a-la Cydia. Apple's terms were always controversial. Apple's constituent of app developers does not even remotely reflect the attitude (or assent) of the development co…

The legal agreement, and the fact developers signed it, even if begrudgingly, back when iOS did not have a monopoly in any way, is the only assent the law needs to consider. Student loans certainly don't have much assent 5 years after graduation.

And most sane people despise the indentured servitude system known as student loans.
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