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YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

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Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#181

Post by drawkward »

mystified5016 wrote: post #162
drawkward wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken as if there was only one single binary option for investment! The strategy implies that the marginal value of the lack of ethics/the personality type to do that is the thing thats worth investment. If thats true, then venture capitalism and perhaps capitalism itself is super fucked: a machine for developing and rewarding the worst impulses of humanity.

Yes. That's exactly what capitalism is.

Poe's Law: can't tell if serious or sarcastic.

At any rate, emergent behaviors can arise from complex systems, and thats exactly what I am alleging of (venture) capitalism at this stage of its evolution. If you have differences of opinion, by all means share them.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#182

Post by throwuxiytayq »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #174
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You've probably got the wrong impression. My own startups have failed partially because I'm so bad at lying -- even small white lies. Mostly my own projects are just open sourced or maintained for free for a small community of passionate users. I've realized I'm great at building software, built terrible at marketing, sales, and extracting capital.

Well, OK, that's actually rather commendable.

Still, ripping off open-source projects seems plainly scummy, and is a strong signal of a lack of actual product level competence. Hence my difficulty to find anything redeemable about your take.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#183

Post by spencerchubb »

johnday wrote: post #6
jazz9k wrote: post #2

This is completely allowed under the apache open source license. I'm not sure why people are so upset about it. If you don't want this to happen, release software under a different licensing model.

There are a few confounding factors here: 1. It may be legally permissible, but it is impolite, to change the license away from the well-known Apache software license towards something which has not been legally vetted, and is in fact generated entirely by AI with minimal oversight. 2. There is an open question of what the supposed value add is here from the Pear team, that could not have been achieved by the people…

Your first point is not true. If Continue wanted a copyleft license, they would have done so. Continue basically said they are fine with people forking and changing the license

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#184

Post by adolph »

kibwen wrote: post #77
CharlieDigital wrote: post #68

I've been in the VC-backed startup space as a lead/principal engineer or technical advisor for the last 4 years. In that time, I've worked at 1 startup that closed a $100m C, one that closed a multi-million B, one that recently closed a $30m C, and one that started with a $8m seed. I've started my own startup and worked with founders of other startups on the side advising on the technical side (and once in a while bu…

The problem here is not that they stole the idea, it's that they literally just took an open-source codebase and filed off the serial numbers to claim it as their own proprietary work, and they did so in the most comically inept way possible. From the OP: PearAI offers an AI coding editor. The startup’s founder Duke Pan has openly said that it’s a cloned copy of another AI editor called Continue, which was covered un…

From: https://fossa.com/blog/open-source-licenses-101-apache-licen...

  Anyone who uses open source software licensed under Apache 2.0 must include the following in their copy of the code, whether they have modified it or not:

  1. The original copyright notice
  2. A copy of the license itself
  3. If applicable, a statement of any significant changes made to the original code
  4. A copy of the NOTICE file with attribution notes (if the original library has one)
[...]

  However, you do not need to release the modified code under Apache 2.0. Simply including any modification notifications is enough to comply with the license terms.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#185

Post by CharlieDigital »

kevin_nisbet wrote: post #144
kibwen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is not that they stole the idea, it's that they literally just took an open-source codebase and filed off the serial numbers to claim it as their own proprietary work, and they did so in the most comically inept way possible. From the OP: PearAI offers an AI coding editor. The startup’s founder Duke Pan has openly said that it’s a cloned copy of another AI editor called Continue, which was covered un…

The funny? thing is, this isn't the only YC company I've seen do this.

There's a really great Radiolab podcast Dealing with Doubt[0] that talks about how high level competitive poker has evolved over the years.

    ANNIE DUKE: Sometimes you have to be 40 percent sure. Sometimes you have to be 30 percent sure. You know, if there's $70 in the pot and you only have to call $10, you know, now you're in the 15 percent range in terms of how certain you have to be that your hand is good.
    
    JAD: In that case, you can bet this hand that you're really not sure about knowing that while you might lose this time ...
    
    MIKE PESCA: If I do that a million times in my poker life, the law of high numbers indicates that I'm going to be very much a winner in the long run. It might be the very long run, but you should be ahead in the long run.
    
    ANNIE DUKE: Because it's not—it's not about winning the hand all the time, it's about winning the hand enough of the time.
Any VC is making a bet of the same nature. Because there is some intangible in the team itself, it makes sense for the VC to bet on multiples if they believe that there is a valuable problem to be solved here. Some team(s) will be more successful than others, but it's really difficult to tell at the outset.

(The podcast is a great listen!)

[0] https://radiolab.org/podcast/278173-dealing-doubt/transcript

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#186

Post by spencerchubb »

MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #45
burcs wrote: post #26

Isn't this how open-source works. Sure it sucks. However creators can pick a different license, like AGPL, if they don't want something like this to happen. I saw someone on x/twitter post this: Neovim is a fork of Vim which is a fork of Vi. They were pretty clear in their repo that they were forked from Continue. I get that they were rather lackadaisical about the licensing, but that's kind of their brand, and they…

neovim didn’t seek VC funding and advertise as if they built their own editor. The first text on neovims page is ”Vim-fork focused on extensibility and usability”

Pear never advertised that they built everything themselves. They were very open about the fork

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#187

Post by spencerchubb »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #98

Oh the humanity! > OHIO @parenth_: You illegally relicensed Pear to an enterprise, non open source license called "Pear Enterprise Edition (EE) license" even though Continue is Apache 2.0. Your project violates multiple terms in the Apache license. @continuedev you should sue these clowns. > FRYING PAN & @CodeFryingPan: dawg i chatgpt'd the license, anyone is free to use our app for free for whatever they want. if th…

It's perfectly legal to relicense Apache 2.0 license

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#188

Post by spaintech »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #68

I've been in the VC-backed startup space as a lead/principal engineer or technical advisor for the last 4 years. In that time, I've worked at 1 startup that closed a $100m C, one that closed a multi-million B, one that recently closed a $30m C, and one that started with a $8m seed. I've started my own startup and worked with founders of other startups on the side advising on the technical side (and once in a while bu…

Dang, that many startups in that short period of time, how is that plausible? I say that wholeheartedly considering the time it takes to take something from an idea to a PoC to an MVP. Don’t get me wrong, I know there are plenty of quick slap together projects out there, similar to the one been commented here, they are more like a marketing wrapper of bundles from others people’s work, which is something to be frowned upon… specially if you are technically motivated.

Well, IMHO, when considering a project, knowing that you are solving for a customer demand problem is very different than from a VC minded problem. I personally would never advise or be part of such an “Arrangement.” These are my clear principles, and my success will come or fail, but my integrity will never be questioned.

Re: YC criticized for backing AI startup that simply cloned another AI startup

#190

Post by adolph »

whiplash451 wrote: post #112
CharlieDigital wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem to be resolved by their legal counsel and often not even a fatal problem (e.g. work out some licensing agreement). The first job of a startup is to understand how to solve a valuable problem. If the team is solving a valuable problem, they can figure out how they want to navigate even violation of licenses. Everything else can be negotiated.

Sure. We can break into each other's houses. It's illegal but "that's a problem to be resolved by [our] legal counsel and often not even a fatal problem".

Why do you think there is a distinction between civil and criminal law?
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