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How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

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Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#181

Post by pacerier »

foldr wrote: post #175
pacerier wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years is truly a big kill. looks like its a reaction to 99% of them refusing to send money back home and invest in Nigeria, preferring to buy-US and -Europe.

Not sure if you are deliberately misunderstanding at this point, but the problem is obviously not where the doctors spend their money, but the fact that they are not practicing medicine in Nigeria – as Nigeria might reasonably have hoped them to do once they completed their training.

? The problem is obviously whether (how much) the doctors are paid and where they spend that money.

You cannot expect an article to tell you these things.

Whether they work in Nigeria or not is not the issue. The issue is that they are doing it without compensating the country. Worse, they clearly don't intend to come back again (so you don't Ever get compensated at all, not just suffering time value of money) otherwise there's no need for a 5 year penalty. which is relatively huge compared to what the other countries are doing.

I guess sending money back home is not big in Nigeria culturally like it is in Mexico? Welp, I can't enforce you to send money back but guess what, I can enforce you to not leave at all.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#182

Post by pacerier »

the_real_cher wrote: post #123
t43562 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs - Iranian? Fatih and his wife Eren Ozmen (Sierra Nevada Corporation) are Turkish. Sergey Brin... Russian? Seems every time you try to make some fundamentally discriminatory point the definition has to keep expanding form e.g. Britain, to EUROPE to Western to whatever. Democracy is Greek. Our counting system is Arabic. 0 is an Indian concept. etc etc etc. Progress is just a flame and people who know they ca…

you name a few dubious outlier discoveries their origins of which are contested but I'll give them to you. > Progress is just a flame and people who know they can make it happen go to where other similar people are. yet progress only seems to be happening in Western countries and has been for centuries and everyone continuously tries to immigrate to Western countries and never in the reverse direction. I struggle to…

> has been for centuries.

Did you even bother picking up a for-kids textbook on world history? 250 years is incredibly short, it's not even 10%?

For centuries.. "western" countries did not even exist.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#183

Post by pacerier »

carom wrote: post #158
prewett wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Americans aren't willing to work a lot of lower wage jobs. I think that Mexicans harvest most of the crops in California. A friend of mine in California needed roof repairs and he says that all the American workers were pretty lackadaisical, while the Mexicans worked pretty hard. I believe a lot of hotel staff are immigrants as well, and after the pandemic smaller hotels were simply unable to…

>Americans aren't willing to work a lot of lower wage jobs. Then the wages are not high enough in those jobs. They should either pay more or get automated. Bringing in desperate people who are willing to live and under worse conditions is not an ethically sound solution.

> ethically

Don't start that pretend. This was never about ethics. Pretending that it's about ethics is instant KO.

(Ethics is measured by how many such desperate people you allow to come in, not how many you yet refuse, subjecting them to even worse alternatives)

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#184

Post by foldr »

pacerier wrote: post #181
foldr wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you are deliberately misunderstanding at this point, but the problem is obviously not where the doctors spend their money, but the fact that they are not practicing medicine in Nigeria – as Nigeria might reasonably have hoped them to do once they completed their training.

? The problem is obviously whether (how much) the doctors are paid and where they spend that money. You cannot expect an article to tell you these things. Whether they work in Nigeria or not is not the issue. The issue is that they are doing it without compensating the country. Worse, they clearly don't intend to come back again (so you don't Ever get compensated at all, not just suffering time value of money) otherw…

>Whether they work in Nigeria or not is not the issue.

It absolutely is the issue, because Nigeria has a shortage of doctors. It has nothing to do with whether or not Nigerian doctors send money back home. If they send lots of money back home, they still aren't in Nigeria practicing medicine, which is what Nigeria actually wants.

If this was about money then there'd be no reason to make a law specific to doctors, as many other Nigerians emigrate for better economic prospects elsewhere.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#185

Post by pacerier »

CrimsonCape wrote: post #149
prewett wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Americans aren't willing to work a lot of lower wage jobs. I think that Mexicans harvest most of the crops in California. A friend of mine in California needed roof repairs and he says that all the American workers were pretty lackadaisical, while the Mexicans worked pretty hard. I believe a lot of hotel staff are immigrants as well, and after the pandemic smaller hotels were simply unable to…

I interpret your story as the American workers thinking "wow, I'm not getting paid enough to deal with this s***." I also interpret your story as the children of immigrants realizing "wow, I'm not going to be paid enough to deal with the s** * my parents deal/dealt with." So they find a way to get a tech job or desk job. One could just as easily denigrate the children of immigrants as being lackadasical, but that's n…

I'm not sure where the denigration is?

> to work a lot of lower wage

> all the American workers were pretty lackadaisical, while the Mexicans worked pretty hard

Truth

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#186

Post by pacerier »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #169
pacerier wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforcing ubi ensures that there's a reasonable bottom to how low you can bid on labour. Enforcing minimum wage however is problematic because it is an artificial level. It simply further creates two classes of people, the hired and the unhired.

Enforcing an understanfing of economics, motivation and thinking beyond a first order effect usually ensures people understand why ubi os a bad idea....

There is more than enough science and tech capital for automation to allow ubi over a decade ago. Go ask larry page (cf bit.ly/3TiyI9r), but at the same time be careful who you talk to, for example if you get near Bill Gates he will start to brainwash you why medicine shouldn't be opensourced to africa like we did for code because La and Ti and Do Re Mi 10x-th order thinking.

But enforcing billionth-order thinking is not enough to learn basic raw psych and motivation. here put to you in simple words:

— As with every capital transfer 40 acres or otherwise, it is a bad idea if you are not on the receiving side, second-order thinking not actually needed.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#187

Post by eddd-ddde »

pacerier wrote: post #178
eddd-ddde wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but what's the point ? If science improves shouldn't we aim for less population? Less people can keep up with more production. Less people means less impact on the environment. Less people means more nature. At least personally I rather have less people on the planet at any given moment.

why production? environmental? nature? Who cares about these things more than caring about humans [and happiness thereof]? Sure I want less people and more earth to myself too, but if everyone [overall] wants as many free kids as they can afford, how on earth are you going to end up with having less people? A girl's maximum happiness is directly correlated with the number of children she has. regardless of how much f…

> A girl's maximum happiness is directly correlated with the number of children she has. regardless of how much free capital and brainwashing received

Wow that's one interesting statement. I've met many girls that rather not have any kids AT ALL. Are those statistical anomalies or something? Are you implying that being pregnant 100% of the time = ultimate happiness?

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#188

Post by iknowstuff »

sgt101 wrote: post #59
iknowstuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

The people who used to live in the USA disagreed with you. “A long time ago, this land belonged to our fathers, but when I go up to the river, I see camps of soldiers on its banks. These soldiers cut down my timber, they kill my buffalo, and when I see that, my heart feels like bursting.” – Satanta, Kiowa Chief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_th... But almost all of them have been killed and…

Wow my eyes are open now, I can totally see how those two are exactly the same

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#189

Post by pacerier »

eddd-ddde wrote: post #187
pacerier wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why production? environmental? nature? Who cares about these things more than caring about humans [and happiness thereof]? Sure I want less people and more earth to myself too, but if everyone [overall] wants as many free kids as they can afford, how on earth are you going to end up with having less people? A girl's maximum happiness is directly correlated with the number of children she has. regardless of how much f…

> A girl's maximum happiness is directly correlated with the number of children she has. regardless of how much free capital and brainwashing received Wow that's one interesting statement. I've met many girls that rather not have any kids AT ALL. Are those statistical anomalies or something? Are you implying that being pregnant 100% of the time = ultimate happiness?

Since when did she rather be childless? At birth? (Although girls are notorious at lying to themselves, wouldn't hurt to ask.)

Verily I say thee, it started when she realized how the world outside eden works. Scarcity, money, capitalism, food bills, rent bills, hospital bills, nanny bills, university bills, oh my, if you have as many kids as you want when will you have the time to yourself to ever rest and drink some water?

But you can go to this girl who ''rather not have any kids at all'' and see for yourself that's not true. All you need is to bring along $100 bill printouts equal to fortune-ten market cap to match, or buy them from Iran if she is the numismatic type. Go ask her if you have all this money in the world do you want kids? Then before she replies, flush out the cash and say It's all yours! Not if! Not when! You are Naow a trillionaire! It's all yours! Do you want kids?!

Yepp, now you're seeing. Let me know how many kids she wants. (Certainly it'll be age dependant, with those nearing menopause being sourgraped.)

With replacement rate decreasing from 2.1, even if she is the oddball type that wants only two kids, as long as for every billion of her there's someone who wants more, then we are all set. on the path to 8 trillion and more.

Of course if all else fails, don't say I didn't warn you, that this being earth not eden there will be folks who are actually mental and within a mere dozen-decade uncurable.

Being pregnant is not the point, like how working out is not the point. (These are costs not results.) While it can be negative, it's small compared to its epic takeaway.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#190

Post by pacerier »

foldr wrote: post #184
pacerier wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? The problem is obviously whether (how much) the doctors are paid and where they spend that money. You cannot expect an article to tell you these things. Whether they work in Nigeria or not is not the issue. The issue is that they are doing it without compensating the country. Worse, they clearly don't intend to come back again (so you don't Ever get compensated at all, not just suffering time value of money) otherw…

>Whether they work in Nigeria or not is not the issue. It absolutely is the issue, because Nigeria has a shortage of doctors. It has nothing to do with whether or not Nigerian doctors send money back home. If they send lots of money back home, they still aren't in Nigeria practicing medicine, which is what Nigeria actually wants. If this was about money then there'd be no reason to make a law specific to doctors, as…

whatafool, do apply common sense sometimes. Nigeria has a shortage of Everything. But it needs money more than it needs anything else.

> actually wants

Declared by who? And that politically correct statement is believed by who? [other than you]

> no reason to..

no reason??? Doctor training is one of the Top heavily subsidized by the state. (As with weapons. but none is chanting "Weapons Weapons" but "Doctors Doctors Doctors" because PC, as zelensky the clown has found out the hard way even for a christian country.) Sure, it's expensive to subsidize the capital for a literature major sitting in a beautiful airconditioned classroom with a courtyard and maybe swimming pool.. at least until you find out the annual mortgage of a PBT facility.

Tldr use common sense. If every doctor I export out of the country gets me 4.48b cf js.do/code/740428 (prepaid btw, for the correct interest rate to charge does not make any sense considering the country may not be around for another 99y), then I only need to export 100 per year [out of 220M] to twice my gdp; heck you'd do it all day long every single day.

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