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Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#181

Post by BenFranklin100 »

Aloisius wrote: post #127
BenFranklin100 wrote: post #11

Freedom requires both Liberty and Privacy. An all-seeing state will destroy Liberal society. Reform requires reform of both the government and industry. Industry will happily gather the data and the state will then buy it from industry as a means to circumvent the 4th amendment. https://reason.com/2024/08/20/how-the-feds-buy-their-way-aro...

What does that have to do with this article? The police are getting warrants for the video.

They aren’t getting warrants to tow the vehicles. They have no right to seize private property, especially the private property of someone not even involved with the crime in question. And what if the Tesla owner, as is their right or at least should be, refuses to release the video footage? How long do the police keep the illegally seized vehicle while the owner sorts out the seizure before the courts and at what personal cost? And what is prevents the police from obtaining the video through extrajudicial means? Does Tesla itself have access to the video? Can they sell/give it to the police? Are there legal safeguards against this or is it an open market as the linked Reason article shows? All of the above applies to any aftermarket camera security system as well. Also, if the police get access to the car data by some means, can they use any of the data to file separate charges against an uncooperative owner as retribution if they desire? There are many questions along these lines when dealing with an intrusive police state.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#182

Post by moate »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #11

Freedom requires both Liberty and Privacy. An all-seeing state will destroy Liberal society. Reform requires reform of both the government and industry. Industry will happily gather the data and the state will then buy it from industry as a means to circumvent the 4th amendment. https://reason.com/2024/08/20/how-the-feds-buy-their-way-aro...

Freedom does not require Liberty because Freedom does not require the state. Liberties are granted, not natural, Freedoms. Freedom sounds great and people love to hype it, but doesn’t exist in a meaningful way in most advanced societies.

If we’re going to use proper nouns, we need to use them properly.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#183

Post by [deleted] »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #109
righthand wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was on my property. Spying isn’t legal because you can fly a drone over my fence. My places have a right to defend yourself. How do I know it’s not an attack?

Do you own the airspace above your property?

[deleted]

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#184

Post by SoftTalker »

monkeywork wrote: post #140
tylerrobinson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? Absolutely. For moving violations you can look forward to the ticket itself plus increased insurance premiums.

I'm not an expert and I'm not one to get many tickets however my understanding is that they only look up individuals during renewal time or if you change policy or company. If you got a speeding ticket on week 10 of the year there is unlikely to be any increase on your insurance on week 35. Like I said this was my perhaps incorrect understanding of how it works here in Canada.

This is my understanding as well but with net technology perhaps they are checking more often now.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#185

Post by ryandrake »

lr4444lr wrote: post #31
rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

I doubt it'd tell them any more than they already know. These drivers tend to have been given citations already. The real money would be in giving civilians whose footage leads to a successful prosecution for moving violations a percentage of the fine. NYC already has something like this for people who catch too-long idling trucks and photograph/video record it.

> The real money would be in giving civilians whose footage leads to a successful prosecution for moving violations a percentage of the fine.

I don't know where you live, but around me, the police are so disinterested in traffic safety that roads have turned into a Mad Max free-for-all. Red light running, stop sign running, lack of signaling, weaving in and out of lanes, and general belligerence on the road. That and 90% of drivers are playing on their smartphones. Police departments could get infinite money by just opening their eyes and pulling nearly anyone over.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#186

Post by SkyPuncher »

neilv wrote: post #75
SkyPuncher wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to take your argument serious when you choose a pretty absurd example. You walk around the street with a pair of eyes on your face, but that doesn’t mean you can just bend over and look up people’s clothing. The law clearly establishes a difference between capturing “normal” content in public and invading privacy.

Do the privacy laws regarding public surveillance speak of "content"? Because that sounds like something a techbro smug halfwit would say.

Yes, and in California, where this article is based, there are explicit laws against this.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#187

Post by slt2021 »

kepler1 wrote: post #121

Here in California (and generally in the US, as well as other places where the cost of enforcing laws seems to be growing too costly/unpalatable), we seem increasingly interested in documenting and retroactively following up the aftermath of crimes. Rather than preventing them when / before they're happening. I'm surprised the police even care to watch video afterwards. (aside from the serious crime stuff like in the…

[flagged]

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#188

Post by orochimaaru »

Lammy wrote: post #131
papichulo4 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like if it’s technically possible, it will happen, and we can’t stop technological progress. In fact, you and I are probably profiting from that progress. Hard to ask a guy to do something that goes against his paycheck. Even if we vote politically “correct,” whomever that may be, what are you and I voting for with our wallets?

> Seems like if it’s technically possible, it will happen, and we can’t stop technological progress. ‘The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread p…

Errr - not true. Pre Industrial Revolution you were either a serf or a lord. There were a few in the renaissance times who started getting an education and planting the seed of the Industrial Revolution. By and large your existence pre Industrial Revolution would have been at the mercy of your local lord.

Yes, there are negatives to the Industrial Revolution we have to overcome. But it’s a net positive for everyone.

You’re welcome to fantasize being someone’s slave. I’m not.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#189

Post by monkeywork »

nox101 wrote: post #169
monkeywork wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you start offering monetary rewards for non-serious crime reporting you end up where the number of reports will outrun the resources of the reviewers and eventually have someone be required to "protest" the report and claim they are innocent putting a burden on them rather than the burden being on the authorities to prove you've done something wrong first. Look at things like DMCA reporting on youtube and how it…

What's this non serious crime you speak of? It certainly not theft and traffic violations. theft ruins people's lives. traffic violations get people killed. Since 2010, the number of people dying in car accidents has gone up 50% per capita

Theft / traffic violations / jaywalking / curfew breaking / or public intoxication type crimes can be handled by police directly - having an incentive program to have people go around recording and reporting this sort of crime if not the sort of world I want to live in.

Yes I want those type of crimes punished and enforcement, no I do not want the masses to be working in an "all seeing eye" capacity for that to take place.

If you can't understand that the nuance there then I won't have much to discuss with you.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#190

Post by sowbug »

mullingitover wrote: post #154
lr4444lr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it'd tell them any more than they already know. These drivers tend to have been given citations already. The real money would be in giving civilians whose footage leads to a successful prosecution for moving violations a percentage of the fine. NYC already has something like this for people who catch too-long idling trucks and photograph/video record it.

> The real money would be in giving civilians whose footage leads to a successful prosecution for moving violations a percentage of the fine. I've heard lots of talk of civil war in this country, but this is the first serious plan I've seen for how to start one.

Contracting out patrolling to private citizens would be a brilliant way to get around that pesky Bill of Rights.
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