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Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

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Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#181

Post by readyplayernull »

nottorp wrote: post #165

Stupid question from outside the anglosphere: what's the difference between a bank and a credit union?

The main differences between banks and credit unions are that banks are for-profit institutions owned by shareholders, while credit unions are not-for-profit organizations owned by their member account holders. Credit unions typically have lower fees, higher interest rates on savings, and a focus on serving their members' financial needs, rather than maximizing profits like banks. Credit unions also have membership requirements, while banks are open to the general public. Lastly, banks are regulated by federal and state banking authorities, while credit unions are regulated by the National Credit Union Administration.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#182

Post by lisper »

ravenstine wrote: post #113
lisper wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto solves this. Not really. It just replaces this problem with a different but equally difficult problem: managing your crypto keys, which is a skill in and of itself. And if you hire someone to do it for you now you are right back where you started, trusting a third party. The right answer IMHO is to do business with a bank that is small enough that you have a contact there whom you personally know and will pi…

> managing your crypto keys, which is a skill in and of itself. Um, depending on how complicated/paranoid you want to get? Install the Phoenix wallet app and you've got your keys and Lightning node ready to go, pending added liquidity. Sure, it's not maximally secure, but a person can perform transactions outside the banking system pretty easily this way. No need to so consciously "manage" anything. Phone not secure…

> Install the Phoenix wallet

That's trusting a third party.

> get a hardware wallet like Ledger

Again, trusting a third party, and one which had a data breach less than a year ago:

https://www.ledger.com/blog/security-incident-report

And even if you want to discount that, you still have the risk of physically losing the wallet or having it stolen.

> If, by hiring someone, you mean using a custodian like Kraken,

Yes, that's what I mean.

> then you're still solving a problem by not dealing with the traditional banking system.

And, like I said, replacing it with a different problem, of dealing with and trusting a crypto custodian.

> Is everyone supposed to have a personal contact from within a small bank?

In a perfect world, yes. In this world, anyone running a business should have at least one such contact.

> The closest compromise might be to work with credit unions instead of banks.

Yes, that's also a good solution, much better than crypto IMHO.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#183

Post by forgetfreeman »

77pt77 wrote: post #173
crote wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chase is big enough that their KYC fallout queues probably have an entire team working them, and it wouldn't matter who else you CC on the email. The trick is to become so incredibly annoying that some CxO / VP is going to bump you ahead in the queue and assign a dedicated customer experience manager. Personally, if a bank were to steal $180.000 of my money, a few weeks in I'd probably start considering sticking "C…

>The trick is to become so incredibly annoying that some CxO / VP is going to bump you ahead in the queue and assign a dedicated customer experience manager. Hard to be annoying when they can just completely ignore and redirect it to /dev/null

It gets a lot easier to be annoying when you add meatspace antics to your portfolio.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#184

Post by mistercheph »

ryandrake wrote: post #121
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #60

I have been burned by a bank (stagecoach in red field) very similarly. I now only do my financial transactions with smallish credit unions. Big enough that they can have the services I need, but small enough that my business is a large-ish part of the Unions' business. This works internationally, not just US or Europe. Most nations have some sort of a member-owned financial cooperatives, equivalent to credit unions.

Why would you say "stagecoach in red field" instead of Wells Fargo? I don't get why people are so coy about calling out terrible companies by name publicly. They're not going to kick your door in and shoot your dog. Do you think Wells Fargo (the terrible shitty bank) is going to actually search through HN looking for instances where users said their company name "Wells Fargo" and linked that company name "Wells Fargo…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barnett_(whistleblower)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Lynch_(businessman)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/mike...

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#185

Post by 77pt77 »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #183
77pt77 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The trick is to become so incredibly annoying that some CxO / VP is going to bump you ahead in the queue and assign a dedicated customer experience manager. Hard to be annoying when they can just completely ignore and redirect it to /dev/null

It gets a lot easier to be annoying when you add meatspace antics to your portfolio.

> Yes officer, this neerdowell right here.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#186

Post by forgetfreeman »

ryandrake wrote: post #137
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you are either in the US or Europe. I understand your point. Alas, not everyone is based in countries where civil liberties are not completely eroded. That said, even in the US civil cases with or without merit can destroy a business and individual.

Happy to edit out my comment if you're actually personally worried about your safety. Although I can't imagine companies having that much free time, no matter what country you live in.

Hold onto your worldview: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/ebay-hit-with-3m...

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#187

Post by mistercheph »

Algemarin wrote: post #172

Reading anecdotes like this is just so terrifying, and there appears to be absolutely no recourse. These stories can, and do, happen to anyone at any bank. And what can we do about it? It seems like the answer is a glib 'nothing'.

These days, its best to always travel with a retained team of attorneys, ready to intimidate and threaten litigation against anyone that tries to treat you like a kafka protagonist.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#188

Post by imroot »

I had a similar experience with US Bank. Business account, over $50k lost; they said that they can 'terminate their relationship with me at any time for any or no reason whatsoever,' and didn't have to return the money.

The Fraud and Trust VP seemed shocked when I mentioned to her that it wasn't a big deal for me, and that I had my personal accounts with a credit union.

It's been 4+ years. I've written the money off.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#189

Post by rvba »

I went with someone from my family to close a bank account. The bank teller received an error message that said something like "please visit the bank personally". It was a message on her computer.

Is that on the shitty bank rules, or shitty software? After 2 hours and the bank stuff calling some helpdesk they managed to do it.

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