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China's manufacturers are going broke

economist.com

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Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#181

Post by ein0p »

TeaBrain wrote: post #177
ein0p wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything in any of this that contradicts my claim, although I can see how you were misled by the wording. “Never renouncing the use of force” is not the same thing as “threatening to use force”. Put bluntly, all China has to do to reunify with Taiwan peacefully is grow its economy and wait for another decade for the bottom to fall out here in the US. And yes, it is inevitable that they will reunify, and a…

The idea of reunification is less popular than it's ever been in Taiwan since Taiwan's Nation Chengchi University started polling in the late 1990s. What you don't seem to understand is that unification is most supported among the older generations in Taiwan. With time, Taiwan will only become less open to the idea of reunification as the older generations die off. Currently less than 10% support the idea, down from…

Yes, I'm aware US propaganda can be effective. I'm talking about the post-US future, where China is the top dog. They're heading there.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#182

Post by Tanoc »

defrost wrote: post #172
Terr_ wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're attacking a different straw-man argument. These are not the same question: 1. Is America today more militaristic than the PRC ? 2. Has America been successfully militaristic in prior generations including ones which are now dead? Each requires different evidence, answering one does not answer the other.

1. Yes. 2. Yes. America has been sabre rattling about the South China Sea for two decades now, a sea named after China that China has sailed through for some 4,000 years. Is it any wonder that China builds out a navy to defend waters off its own shores that America has crossed an ocean to patrol? I'm not particularly anti-US, just an observer of the world and history in general. Post WWII the US has been number one a…

Historically the South China Sea was named that in English because the British just sort of considered everything along the coast "China." This included Thailand (then Siam) and Taiwan (then Formosa). After Vietnam fell into separate kingdoms in 1533 France and Spain claimed ownership of a huge chunk of the waters for quite a long time until the Japanese imperialist era started in 1868. Chinese assertion of ownership came about after negotiations in 1953 when France said Vietnam had no claim on anything offshore and wouldn't let the Japanese return the Spratly Islands to Vietnam (then French Indochina) and insisted Japan hand the islands over to the French directly.

The language used to describe and name things is vastly more powerful than people give it credit for. Just because the British were lazy in their administration and named it after something else nearby doesn't mean that the entire sea belongs to the current Chinese state.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#183

Post by Terr_ »

defrost wrote: post #172
Terr_ wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're attacking a different straw-man argument. These are not the same question: 1. Is America today more militaristic than the PRC ? 2. Has America been successfully militaristic in prior generations including ones which are now dead? Each requires different evidence, answering one does not answer the other.

1. Yes. 2. Yes. America has been sabre rattling about the South China Sea for two decades now, a sea named after China that China has sailed through for some 4,000 years. Is it any wonder that China builds out a navy to defend waters off its own shores that America has crossed an ocean to patrol? I'm not particularly anti-US, just an observer of the world and history in general. Post WWII the US has been number one a…

> Is it any wonder that China builds out a navy to defend waters off its own shores

"Off its own shores"!? Is that what the kids are calling it these days? [0]

As an "observer of the world", I suggest checking exactly how much and how far the PRC has been claiming exclusive ownership over waters that are closer to their neighbors' shores. (Neighbors with their own ancestors who probably did even more sailing.)

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#184

Post by kKewjG »

highfrequency wrote: post #51

These are some staggering numbers: 52 thousand Chinese EV companies shut down last year. Xi Jinping (successfully) stimulated EV and semiconductor manufacturing through massive government investment and loans. The problem is that so many companies were funded that they are now viciously driving each other out of business through oversupply. Because the supply chain networks are so dense, each bankruptcy easily cascad…

52,000 sounds like a scheme to give government money to party members with plausible deniability.

Xi Jinping is not stupid (quite the opposite), he knows that 52,000 companies never had a chance. So it is not the real economy we are talking about.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#185

Post by n4r9 »

glompers wrote: post #164
peutetre wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. Taiwan: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8dy437pdno Tibet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_Peo... Xinjiang: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037 The Nine Dash Line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line

And India: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/india-china-himal...

Africa: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/china-in-africa-the...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#186

Post by Yeul »

fspeech wrote: post #131
derefr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was actually trying to heavily establish offshoring in the Philippines—but that has seemingly dried up with the increasing South China Sea tensions.

I've never sensed any real desire for China to offshore to the Philippines, given its military alliance with the US. Maybe they dangle the prospect from time to time to try to pry the Philippines away. They have much friendlier targets in Southeast Asia, with Thailand and Malaysia at the top of the list.

A lot of people don't know this but one of the strengths of China is their huge expat community all across Asia.

When Dutch people arrived in what is now Indonesia in the 16th century they ran into Chinese merchants- the only locals who could keep up their mercantile endeavours.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#187

Post by Yeul »

humanlity wrote: post #180

It’s amusing to see discussions about exotic markets like this. While I don’t agree with the CCP’s policies, I believe the issue is more related to free-market dynamics. Given today’s inflation, potential buyers are saving every penny. In China, unlike in the West, people spend based on their expectations and income, and they never resort to deficit spending. Considering the market situation and geopolitical factors,…

To be fair China is a threat. For the last 200 years we've lived in a world dictated by the West. All other nations have always agreed to abide to the Western world view.

Ofcourse China is at its core only a symptom. The world economy- and everything that goes with it- is irrevocably shifting to Asia. It's kinda offensive to see Americans talk about Vietnam or India. They see them as vassals not independent nations with interests of their own.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#188

Post by lenkite »

illiac786 wrote: post #174
lenkite wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not conflate territorial disputes with "invasion". When has China started bombing their neighbors - or any other nation for that matter ? At-least their territorial disputes are with the the nations neighbouring them and not nations across the world.

Well, you can call it invasion or not, it’s definitely very imperialistic.

Well, the recent US claim of national ownership of the Artic seabed and Bering sea in contravention of long-established conventions of UNCLOS is even more imperialistic. But, hey, its OK when Americans do it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims...

https://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/Assessing-US-Extended-Conti...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#189

Post by luuurker »

ein0p wrote: post #128
luuurker wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've pointed out what the US is doing. That's good, but you're clearly biased, so let me tell you two things that China is doing that is contributing for that instability you've mentioned: claims in the south china sea that no country would accept if it was done to them and a major naval build up. You need two to tango and both the US and China are dancing right now. Anyone only blaming one side need to stop for a…

Take a look at a map of US bases around China and then try to find any Chinese bases near the US, and you’ll understand who’s “militarist” and who isn’t.

Most bases have been there since before you were born (probably) and before China was a rising power.

In any case, my point is that you only attribute fault to one side, when you have the other side making claims and starting to flex in front of smaller countries. Let's cut the BS here, that is not China playing nice and promoting stability.

It also doesn't take much to understand that the smaller, way less powerful countries that feel threaten will try to find allies. Who's the other big guy in the Pacific? Of course they want the US to be near them and on their side in case shit hits the fan.

This reminds me of Russia, which invaded Ukraine to keep it under their control, but then is surprised to learn that their actions made Ukrainians dislike them even more and are shocked that other countries that could rushed to join NATO. People like you course blame the US alone, missing the fact that NATO would crumble (like it was already happening) if Russia didn't make weekly threats about nuking European cities or actually invaded their neighbours.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#190

Post by zaphirplane »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #106
alephnerd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with India before 2020 - China used to be India's largest FDI partner before the Galwan crisis. After that, the Indian government "persuaded" Chinese players to sell off their Indian assets to Indian, Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese, and American players instead. 4 years later, the GlobalTimes - which was extremely provocative against India - has started pushing out content arguing that India should begin reopening…

I swear a lot of wars get started by guys like Xi who after seizing power internally try to seize power externally and it often ends really really badly for the host country. Seriously, the leader of Germany in the 1930's, Stalin, Putin, Saddam Hussein, now Xi. All seized power domestically and then couldn't help themselves when it came to neighboring countries.

Is it me or is this one of those, only other people we don’t like do bad things.

You’d need to generalize the pop science to the British, French, Spanish and portugues empires then address the genocide of indigenous tribes by America, Canada and Australia

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