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I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

jdstillwater.blogspot.com

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Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#181

Post by BikiniPrince »

femto wrote: post #138

I was once involved in a similar (unintentional) experiment with a multi-billion dollar defence radar. A several metres deep underground bunker, containing several 19" racks full of electrical/electronic gear, filled to ground level with a combination of mineralised surface water and mud during a storm. What we wanted to do was cut the power, pump the water out of the bunker ASAP and immediately clean the whole lot w…

The navy used to throw the boards in the cleaner and repairs the failures. Now we have better cleansing solutions, but damn if that isn’t nightmare fuel. I would have pumped and dehumidified the room until parts could be pulled/repaired. These days they just scrap everything. It’s terrible.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#182

Post by mauvehaus »

lmm wrote: post #168
klodolph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen a GFCI reset switch in a different room from the outlet. I’m not surprised it exists, but it would make me unhappy.

I've had the GFCI switch in the main fusebox in a couple of modern-ish apartments. That seems a perfectly sensible place for it, it's where you'd go to check whether the room breaker had tripped anyway.

That complicates things a bit in the panel because the breakers need a connection to neutral, but yeah, otherwise a slick setup.

Newer panels and breakers are plug-on-neutral, older breakers have a pigtail to the neutral bar.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#184

Post by alwa »

Alupis wrote: post #63
raicem wrote: post #60

> These commenters are speaking authoritatively on subjects about which they are completely ignorant, but they are strident in doing so because they are repeating what everybody knows. They are intellectually secure in the center of a vast mob; their wisdom was received, not crafted. This is an important takeaway for me, maybe even more than “electirc devices are washable”. World is filled with conventional wisdom th…

It's not the water that's the issue generally - it's the minerals in the water. The article author got lucky this time - when electronics die from water contact, it's usually the minerals bridging connections and creating shorts. Letting the device dry does not remove those shorts. Some places have such hard water (lots of minerals) that evaporated water leaves calcium, limestone and other deposits on the surface of…

Why not play such games? If it works, it works; if it fails, it only costs $20 to replace at your local Walmart!

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#185

Post by foobarian »

krisoft wrote: post #143

It is because people use heuristics to navigate their lives. Instead of doing complicated engineering reasoning all the time to ensure their safety they learn simple “rules of thumb”. These rules are incorrect in as much as they have both false positives (something which the rule prohibits, but is safe) and false negatives (something which the rule lets you do, but is not safe). I’m a hobby jeweler and I use an ordin…

This whole thread is the most significant thing I've learned in the last 5 years. Thank you.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#186

Post by autoexec »

lucb1e wrote: post #157
practicemaths wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made me think of Electroboom's visit to Mexico. https://youtu.be/d1mPemYUrVc?si=C9zfy6jQJaO3BZ7e

Nontracking link: https://youtu.be/d1mPemYUrVc

"less tracking" might be better as there's no link you can follow to youtube that won't result in you being tracked.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#187

Post by autoexec »

alvah wrote: post #174
Alupis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the water that's the issue generally - it's the minerals in the water. The article author got lucky this time - when electronics die from water contact, it's usually the minerals bridging connections and creating shorts. Letting the device dry does not remove those shorts. Some places have such hard water (lots of minerals) that evaporated water leaves calcium, limestone and other deposits on the surface of…

A toaster (at least a cheap toaster) is an electrical device, not an electronic one, as stated by the author in the article. Please look up the difference if you don't know what it is.

We have toasters that run linux, connect to the internet, and play doom. Explain to me how they aren't electronic devices.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#188

Post by LoganDark »

jdietrich wrote: post #133
Renaud wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would mineral deposits be sufficiently large and conductive that they would cause an actual issue between components? They would probably represent nothing more than minor stray resistance/capacitance. Assuming it was conductive enough, a scales bridge between higher voltage parts would just represent a path of material a few microns thick that would vaporize as soon as the toaster would be plugged in. For other elec…

>Would mineral deposits be sufficiently large and conductive that they would cause an actual issue between components? A good proportion of water-damaged cellphones can be revived just by washing the logic board thoroughly in isopropyl alcohol. It's possible that this is due to small amounts of water trapped in crevices, but I've seen it work on boards that looked bone-dry under the microscope.

Crevices could be inside components. Alcohol will extract the water by diluting it and then evaporating

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#189

Post by dekhn »

hi_hi wrote: post #178

Please, please, clarify this bit for me. > All that day, kids got to see Mr. Stillwater’s hair dryer running under water in a fish tank. I thought I knew about electricity and water, but what I possessed was Conventional Ignorance posing as Conventional Wisdom. Humbling. Should I put the wifes running hairdryer into our fishtank to entertain our child?

No; the author made a number of reasoning errors throughout the article.

"""Underwriters Laboratories modified its marking requirements for hair dryers after the CPSC brought to UL's attention reports of injuries and deaths attributed to consumer misuse of hair dryers. Under the modified requirements, hair dryers must be permanently. marked "Danqer-- Electrocution possible if used or dropped in tub. Unplug after using." A tag with warning instructions also is required by UL to be attached to the power supply cord."""

TL;DR insurance underwriters observed enough deaths that they believed it was wise to change a product's markings to avoid having to pay out as much money.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#190

Post by foobarian »

mauvehaus wrote: post #182
lmm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the GFCI switch in the main fusebox in a couple of modern-ish apartments. That seems a perfectly sensible place for it, it's where you'd go to check whether the room breaker had tripped anyway.

That complicates things a bit in the panel because the breakers need a connection to neutral, but yeah, otherwise a slick setup. Newer panels and breakers are plug-on-neutral, older breakers have a pigtail to the neutral bar.

My house came with an EV charger wired through a GFCI breaker. That damn thing tripped constantly because I guess it was malfunctioning? And they are quite expensive for a 50A version.
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