The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community • Hacker News Board

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#181

Post by BobaFloutist » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:07 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #87

JohnFen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had an invite from friends and the activity didn't seem immediately interesting to me, I'd decline. I have seen many (usually younger) people make this mistake. The mistake is thinking that the point of the activity is the activity itself. It isn't. The point is the genuine social engagement. (Edited to add:) > I've since learned to say yes more Years ago, I learned to change my default answer to things from "…

There's also a weird mistake among young people in thinking of Republicans versus Democrats as enemies to be shunned rather than the "loyal opposition" who just happen to have a different perspective. Becoming a political tribalist cuts out about half your social opportunities.

Agree to disagree. It's pretty hard, and often unrewarding, to bridge such fundamental divides in values.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#182

Post by andrepd » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

It's kinda impressive how often Marx's 19th century diagnoses of the ills of capitalism prove themselves true in the 21st century.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#183

Post by goethes_kind » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

I'm in my 30s but I'm feeling this so hard.

Growing up we used to have these kid/youth centres that were run by local Catholic organizations. We used to hang out there after school. Ostensibly the point was that there'd be 30 minutes of catechism doctrine, but we didn't really care about that. To us it was just a the place where everyone would be. I miss that so much. A place where you can just go and meet people your age, without any reason to be that and without having to pay an entrance fee.

Now as a grown up we have community centers, which are run, not by the Church, but by sort of hippie-lefty people. But it's not really the same atmosphere, because you go there, and it's just one demographic of people. It's not quite the same.

There's also pubs and climbing gyms which people often use as low effort places where one can mingle, but again, it's not quite the same. I don't like drinking multiple times a week and I really don't like climbing.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#184

Post by benreesman » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

It goes by various names (“trad life”, etc.) but whatever you call it the premise is dystopian and terrifying: people now become celebrity influencers on the back of appearing to live some semblance of a historically normal life.

For many that’s now the unattainable dream: a community with values that sit still long enough to even aim at upholding them, a robust partnership early enough in life to start a family the biological way, children who can look forward to the same.

On the surface there is a culture war around this, and it’s true that the old model had serious problems with admitting other lifestyles. That needed fixing, but not by obliterating the model that works for most people with overwhelming precedent.

The real culprit as always is the “monetization” of everything, a baton that has now firmly been passed from finance people to Silicon Valley people.

The #1 post on Y-Combinator’s news site is in some sense the central locus in the observable universe for this.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#185

Post by andrepd » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

vegadw wrote: post #165

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

What frustrates me is that, it seems (Read as: the following is just my vibe) that the majority of 3rd places left are religious in nature, but I, personally, don't want to be religious or raise children that are. There are some options, of course, but they're limited and often of poor quality, at least locally. Libraries are trying to adapt to fill this gap, and maker spaces spring up but most don't have funding to…

Sports, hobby groups, book clubs? There are plenty of options to meet like-minded people other than churches.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#186

Post by kredd » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

tarkin2 wrote: post #144

The lack of religion is a big factor. I'd argue as much as the internet. Religious activity--putting aside the well-documented negatives--gives group identity, belonging, a welcoming atmosphere, an in-person place to socialise, associated group events and a connection to your geographic community. The rush to abandon religion never replaced the essential in-person community it offered its adherents.

Tight knit irreligious communities always existed. I grew up in one, nobody in my family is/was religious, yet people still were close. I think the top comment nails down the root cause — rampant individualism is rewarded from an economical and financial stand point, so people avoid making sacrifices for others. If you check out very religious societies (other than closed down sects), they have a significant decline in youth co-mingling as well.

I’m not saying removing religion did not contribute to the decline (e.g. parents forcing their children to go to church), and we definitely screwed up when it comes to replacing that freed time with something more social. But actively asserting ideas and beliefs that don’t hold ground in the modern days to the children isn’t something I can support.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#187

Post by Miraste » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:11 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #5

joe_the_user wrote: post #2

There are so many candidates for causes here. Thinking about and watching climate change can't be good for, say, a teenager imagining their future. Of course, that teenager is also watching the world not coming together to solve this problem so you could say the situation is connected to "loss of community" in a way.

> Thinking about and watching climate change can't be good for, say, a teenager imagining their future. That doesn't make sense. Kids in previous generations had to grow up with things like the omnipresent threat of nuclear annihilation, which had greatly faded into the background until very recently. Also (at least in the 80s) destruction of the environment was a an issue kids were made very aware of. At least when…

I don't think increasingly poor mental health has much to do with climate change, but the threat of nuclear war is a bad comparison. Bombs either fall or don't. Climate change is a creeping, progressive issue that's visibly worse every few years, and the government has effectively said that that there will be no intervention.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#188

Post by hot_gril » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:11 PM UTC

throwway120385 wrote: post #173

hot_gril wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What single entity did you have in mind? An HOA will spend dues on parks, a regular city will spend taxes on parks. A luxury apartment will have common spaces or even activities. They make these expenditures because enough residents will pay extra for it. And a church will run community events paid for by donations. No "brought to you by Carl's Jr." Tragedy of the commons is when there's no big entity with rules, and…

What often happens in these small community organizations is one or two volunteers join and begin to do a bunch of work to "transform" the organization and expand its reach. They inevitably become "indispensable" to the new organization, which they have wrapped around themselves like a cloak. Then they squeeze it around themselves until everyone leaves and the organization's soul has been sucked out. They move on to…

Not sure about the resumé part, but I've seen these authoritarian volunteers. They still don't ruin everything. And I think my local church has enough of them that they cancel each other out :D

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#189

Post by snozolli » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #168

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is both a loss in and of itself, and is also a rational response by people within this system. Everything MUST make money because everyone is FUCKING broke. People don't monetize their hobbies for fun, they do it because they're barely scraping by and the notion of spending time on things that don't make money is so beaten out of us that it feels wrong to do it. We can't go anywhere without spending money, we ca…

I think it’s pretty reasonable to expect people with cars to pay for parking?

Not at a public location that's too far or unsafe to walk to.

We should have much higher density, high quality housing with plenty of public, walkable green spaces. They calling it "15-Minute Cities" now, but I always called it Tokyo.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#190

Post by AftHurrahWinch » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #138

philip1209 wrote: post #66

The books the authors cite are great and worth reading. Some personal observations: - The USA lacks a unified cultural identity now. There are lots of reasons for this. But, it's considered taboo to express a love of the USA - which hurts our community + culture. - People put a lot of effort into work, and work is becoming more transactional. No more "life-long employment with the buddies" kind of situation. - Americ…

> it's considered taboo to express a love of the USA - which hurts our community + culture. Nearly every bullet point the article listed for what makes a strong community was basically just a descriptor for cultural homogeneity, which also touches on a rather controversial taboo. This sort of critique of diversity would be considered hate speech by some.

> This sort of critique of diversity would be considered hate speech by some.

How wonderful that we have the diversity of thought to find someone who will object to anything, and how fortunate that we have mechanisms to overrule and ignore them.