New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#181

Post by lbraasch » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:28 PM UTC

elderberry wrote: post #46

its_so_on wrote: post #11

The real news is that they could shave as much of the macbook off as they actually did. Did you see the video? The screen display is now 'attached directly' to the unibody with no 'glass layer'. What does that even mean? Whatever it means, it's obviously not user-serviceable. I was amazed at how much they got off the macbook in size and weight - EDIT: everywhere, off the whole machine - and they're idiots for not put…

Does the thinness of your computer really matter?

YES. It's a laptop. If you can't sacrifice the screen size, where else do you trim the fat?

thinner = less mass = less weight = portability. A laptop is designed to be a portable machine, no?

Desktops however, I do not care if there is a massive tower under my desk. I don't move it unless I'm plugging in something new, or upgrading components.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#182

Post by idspispopd » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

JackC wrote: post #142

super_mario wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle. In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives.

Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market.

I'm not going to go into the historical precedence of laptops having limited upgradability, but as you've noted something had to give, and soldering the RAM is by no means a new idea.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#183

Post by freehunter » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:30 PM UTC

ioquatix wrote: post #146

freehunter wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need to understand that you have become an edge case. It's called the Macbook Pro . Firewire is huge in cameras still. Optical drives are still big in AV work. Ethernet is still important in corporate networks. By default, professionals are not mainstream. This is a 100% consumer laptop. Calling it "Pro" is just disingenuous when there's not a single professional aspect about it.

No they aren't¹. (1) 95% of statistics are made up. I'm sure Apple, who actually sell the machines, and collect statistics, know what their users are after.

And they can sell whatever machine they want to sell. The point of this entire thread is the name.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about statistics, as I never offered any statistics. I'd love to take a survey of audio and visual professionals and see how many of them have devices that either stream over Firewire (much more consistent bandwidth than USB2) or burn to disc (slightly less common). Brand new devices might use SD or Thunderbolt, but AV equipment is expensive and not always replaced every time Apple comes up with a new standard.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#184

Post by drbawb » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:31 PM UTC

51Cards wrote: post #135

feralchimp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one Whenever I get the urge to write something like that, I ask myself: "Am I in the target market for this?" A product built to these tolerances is not one that a rational person (even a competent one, with experience fixing computers) should want to crack open. Make the professionals worry about getting in and out of it, and enjoy the fact that they'll be liable for anyth…

... while it's under warranty. Pay through the nose when it's not because it can't be serviced anywhere else. Simply put, would you buy a car that once beyond the warranty had to have brakes, tires, battery, air filter, and spark plugs replaced ONLY at the dealership with parts at factory cost? In addition if any part broke on the engine you would have to replace the entire engine. It's not that much different. I wou…

You do realize that many premium cars have exactly this mentality surrounding them?

Audis are notoriously difficult to work on, as were Saab's, and good luck finding somebody certified to service a Porsche in your area that doesn't work at a Porsche dealer.

Not to mention, people that spend that much on a car usually want performance parts or factory parts [not your average "OEM equivalent" parts] and a competent technician that specializes in working with their specific make of car. Why? Because they're uncompromising in the quality of the vehicle they just purchased.

To people like this, they don't care if they have to pay extra for an AAA membership because it's too difficult to jump-start their own car.

Why is it so unreasonable to expect that there are some computer users that hold a similar attitude about their "luxury" computer brand?

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#185

Post by brockhand » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:31 PM UTC

51Cards wrote: post #135

feralchimp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one Whenever I get the urge to write something like that, I ask myself: "Am I in the target market for this?" A product built to these tolerances is not one that a rational person (even a competent one, with experience fixing computers) should want to crack open. Make the professionals worry about getting in and out of it, and enjoy the fact that they'll be liable for anyth…

... while it's under warranty. Pay through the nose when it's not because it can't be serviced anywhere else. Simply put, would you buy a car that once beyond the warranty had to have brakes, tires, battery, air filter, and spark plugs replaced ONLY at the dealership with parts at factory cost? In addition if any part broke on the engine you would have to replace the entire engine. It's not that much different. I wou…

I hear this comparison often but to me the big difference lies in the order of magnitude of cost difference. A $2,200 laptop is different than a $30,000 car for a few reasons. The largest is probably the difference in purchasing behavior. I might save up for a few weeks to buy a laptop. I might have a car note for a few years.

To me that makes all of the difference.

I think people should educate themselves on the product and if it doesn't fit within their use case then they should find a product that does. I personally think that this is a terrific looking laptop and has enough local processing power that combined with my increasing cloud reliance could be a good fit for a number of years.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#186

Post by ctdonath » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #30

ioquatix wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the kind of perspective you have, but I own 3 MBP and I use the ethernet about once a year - normally when doing an initial Time Machine backup. Wireless is sufficient for all day to day tasks in my experience. * Finally, if it really is a problem, buy the Thunderbolt to GigE adaptor.

Well for a pro laptop... my pro laptop (Thinkpad) is hooked into a docking station right now. My external monitor, some USB drives, and ethernet are plugged into the dock. When I undock, I'm going mobile so I don't need an external monitor, USB hard drives, and I can work on wifi. In my ~3000 person office, this is by far the norm. Access to some systems are locked down on an IP address basis, assuming you'll be plug…

$200 netbooks don't come with those standard features, $2200 laptop features, AND cram it all into a 0.71" thick case.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#187

Post by bbwharris » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:33 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #124

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Serious computing? Like gaming?

Last I checked typing text files and compiling them is more serious than most users and doesn't require massive clusters to accomplish.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#188

Post by gouranga » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #178

gouranga wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah penis waving hipsters in Starbucks writing their next novel whilst contributing to the bad credit problem that seems to have screwed up the economy... Not any worthy portion of society then.

You can also add the majority of computer science researchers that I know to that list. As I said in reply to your parent comment, please read the guidelines here. We appreciate civility. If you keep it up, you will eventually be hellbanned.

Oh I agree entirely. The intent was to mock the comment about suitability for a task. Sometimes it is appropriate to do so to convey a point.

My sincerest apologies if such an approach is offensive.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#189

Post by lbraasch » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:35 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #159

jwr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so that I know — how exactly do you (I mean yourself) recycle Li-Ion battery cells? I'm curious, because I never tried to do that at home. I always returned the whole appliance for recycling.

I don't. I do know what is involved though. You dig a big hole and put them in it. Then over 25 years or so the lithium seeps out into the water table...

you forgot to pot it in epoxy first.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#190

Post by its_so_on » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 2:38 PM UTC

JackC wrote: post #138

its_so_on wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I thought was happening, from the press headlines and the front page. (That it's a new macbook with retina display.) Until I clicked the video and found out the extent of the reduction here. They have completely blown the announcement in my opinion. Even something as little as "The All-New Macbook with Retina Display" would have been enough to draw attention to it. ('all-new') It's not everyday t…

I agree with you it's a big deal, but it's also out of the price range of most of their customers -- until the new design trickles down in a year or two, like it did for the Air. This is the part of the product cycle where you make a product just for wealthy or fanatical people while you figure out how to scale. So their marketing strategy is probably as much about selling the other 5/6 of their product line that peo…

Then they don't understand the Apple product cycle and are currently being run by clueless monkeys.

if they want to do what you suggest, don't make a big announcement and don't put it across the front page...(bottom-left area is fine in case they're trying to limit the exposure). what they've done is just stupid and inconsiderate to the hardware team and apple's fans, who love these types of innovations even if they can't afford them yet.

most people who loved the idea of the air and apple's achievement with it didn't buy one when it came out, haven't bought one since, and still had fun hearing, reading, and talking about it.