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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

181–190 of 599 posts

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Shell shock is PTSD. The doctors were concerned about concussive trauma but investigated and ruled it out as the cause. The concern itself was right to have, but I don't think the concern has ever gone away. So I don't characterize that as very "right the first time".

They were right as to the cause.

> the cause

Not at all. It might be a cause, but tons of PTSD has nothing to do with concussive trauma, so much so that the other cases overwhelmed the correlating cases when they investigated the causation.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting that at the time, in WW1, it was assumed to be a physical injury to the brain caused by the shockwave of exploding artillery shells (hence the name). A few years later a consensus evolved that it's a psychological problem caused by the stress of combat, which was the prevailing opinion for about 100 years. And now it's looking like it might actually be a physical injury caused by shockwave damage t…

It’s not either/or. The psychological shit is real, but the physical damage to the brain is real also. Both things are true.

Physical damage to the brain can easily cause phycological problem. It wouldn't make psychological problems any less real, merely help to prevent them better.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#183

I didn’t read the article. I mainly come here for the commentary and the backdoor links. But! Hormone replacement therapy is a game changer for a lot of men who have CTE. I’m a clinical social worker. I’ve worked in emergency medicine, correctional medicine, and now outpatient psychotherapy. I used to think HRT was for ego lifters and old ladies. But I have seen first hand the value of HRT for CTE patients. I’ve seen…

What do you think the mechanism behind this is? I wouldn't intuitively think HRT would help much with a damaged brain, unless the damage itself somehow caused a hormone imbalance.

> What do you think the mechanism behind this is

Estrogen in the brain is neuro-protective and neuro-trophic. The primary source of estrogen in the brain for men is testosterone converted via aromatase.

However, that's speculative. I found no significant studies on point, notwithstanding physician interest. Because some men seek out testosterone, some doctors might be quick to offer it off-label for other conditions.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's hard to describe the difference"

“The difference” in brain damage? Between two things he suggests doing?

I’m only going to engage with you once, because I think you’re being deliberately obtuse in your comments. The following is in case you’re being genuine, and for other’s benefit:

There are several orders of magnitude difference between a 9mm handgun and a small artillery round. The difference is in terms of concussive force.

If you shoot a handgun with earplugs in, you hear a pop that sounds kind of like dropping a small ball bearing on a wood floor. You feel a shock in your wrists and a bit in your elbows, like high-fiving someone.

Now, you stand a few yards from artillery - and I’m talking Korean war artillery, not modern stuff. Also not talking about reenactment stuff; they usually just put a bit of black powder in there. I’m talking about small tow-behind artillery that you’d see at the Big Sandy Shoot (Google it).

You _feel_ the sound before you hear it. You’ll look for some shooting muffs to put on _over_ your earplugs. The concussive force comes through the ground, through the air, moves through your head and stimulates your eardrums from the backside. You feel your guts vibrate a bit. It feels like the ground moved under you, like you’re landing after jumping in the air.

And _that_ is an order of magnitude or so below what we’re talking about with SEALs here - those guys are placing explosive with a sticky backing on doors, and torching it off from not very far away. There’s stories from them of not being able to get physically “far enough” from a charge, and having to detonate it anyway because you’re in a freaking war zone. When a SEAL says “oh, this is going to fucking suck” before pushing a button, you know it’s real.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also they're all on drugs and will kill you if you report them for embezzling unit funds. This is maybe not too related to the brain damage stuff (or maybe it is?), but I don't think the wider public knows nearly enough about the frankly shocking kinds and amounts of criminality in the various US special forces units. OP is not kidding about these people operating as gangs (but worse, because they're sanctioned kil…

Every time I bring up the military, I get down voted. That's because (I believe) suggesting anything is wrong with military spending, military behaviour, or foreign adventures, is simply off limits. Discussing or criticizing anything military related us seen as disrespectful to troops, and Killing the argument there kills more problematic questions (like 'was the invasion of Iraq a symptom of a larger problem like a…

With the war in Ukraine, I have a newfound appreciation for defense spending and intelligence gathering(We know Russia was going to invade), while at the same time I am able to view Afghanistan and Iraq as disastrous and unnecessary as well questioning indiscriminate surveillance and other immoral activities done under our name.

I don't know exactly what our military budget should be. It is probably undoubtedly bloated and perhaps full of white elephants, while we're underspending in some area. It seems that the peace dividend is over.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#186
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily here in America we have hundreds of millions of men and women to give up to the altar of democracy, right? We’re not France in 1915 or 1939. Not only that, but maybe you want to consider more modern war’s attrition rates.

Ukraine is now drafting old men.

Ukraine doesn’t have 350 million citizens and the world’s 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 7th largest air forces, ten times more aircraft carriers than the next country, the worlds most effective military training, and a total military budget of more than the next 15 or 20 countries. If we sent troops to Ukraine, Russia would be out within weeks, and we’d have less casualties than Iraq and Afghanistan, assuming Putin didn’t start nuking.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#187
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days we have a senate committee approving a bill that would register women for the draught… it’s getting closer. Men aren’t enough, for this machine, apparently.

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I am aghast with the press-ganging going on in Ukraine. I think if Ukraine can’t motivate volunteers to fight then they must surrender. I get that we (the west) wouldn’t like that but they’re taking volunteers so anyone who wants to fight that war is free to do so. Too many people wanting other people to fight their wars for them. I don’t even like my country, the thought of be…

By this same logic, Russia should also surrender.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#188
post #83
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if we are to address this problem we have to identify the primary cause.

If a problem has multiple causes, only addressing one of them seem like a mistake.

That's the destructive wasteful thinking of "every little bit helps". 80/20 can be applied to almost everything and looking at the second top factor of anything is a waste of time until you properly looked at the first and can't do anymore.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I am aghast with the press-ganging going on in Ukraine. I think if Ukraine can’t motivate volunteers to fight then they must surrender. I get that we (the west) wouldn’t like that but they’re taking volunteers so anyone who wants to fight that war is free to do so. Too many people wanting other people to fight their wars for them. I don’t even like my country, the thought of be…

By this same logic, Russia should also surrender.

I agree, they should

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#190

I was an infantryman in the Army for ten years, from 1998 to 2008, and deployed three times, twice to Iraq, Encounters with IEDs were common, especially during the surge. So many of my friends have died to suicide or have killed themselves due to drugs and/or alcohol that it is hard to keep track. Now that primadonna seals are dying maybe someone will pay attention. Thankfully the only lasting effects of my deploymen…

All the best to you, just wanted to add that it’s interesting that I’ve read similar opinions about the Russian SOF coming from Russian grunts, too, so I guess this is a general feeling among the world’s forces. If it matters I personally am in the grunts’ side, they’re the backbone of any army.
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