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Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

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Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#181

Post by lagadu »

hankman86 wrote: post #64

They should teach Tesla’s “autopilot” (and its FSD upgrade) in business schools. Turns out you can sustainably push up company valuation on vapourware. You have to wonder if Tesla’s autonomous driving technology was actually ever meant to turn into a product. Or whether it is mostly a tool to justify the lofty Tesla stock price. I very much doubt that it is technologically ahead of its competitors.

While I agree that Tesla is nowhere close to having an actually autonomous driving system, I think that Tesla did invest more into research and probably collected more data than anyone else on the market. This amount of research has to have some results, even if they don't have a product yet.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#182

Post by kevincox »

tjoff wrote: post #132
vasco wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting bit is that recently Nvidia's CEO said Tesla is ahead of the other companies in the space. My opinion is also that Tesla isn't but then we have a connundrum. Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them? > “Tesla is far ahead in self-driving cars,” Huang said in an exclusive interview with Yahoo Finance. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-ceo-says-tesla-far-ahe...

> Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them? Yes.

It's amazing how little you can trust these people even though you would expect that the CEO of NVIDIA has a reputation to maintain.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#183

Post by throwup238 »

drcode wrote: post #147
rjh29 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who drive often find basic driving "automatic"; if you still need to be vigilant, maybe even hypervigilant because you're not personally driving the car, what's the advantage?

Maybe I'm just a bad driver, but it feels much safer to me having two entities paying attention, instead of just one It's much more comfortable not to have to micromanage the exact position of the car at every moment, as a manual driver does I think your "automatic driving" argument is wishful thinking

> I think your "automatic driving" argument is wishful thinking

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automaticity

It’s a well known phenomenon.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#184

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

xyst wrote: post #146

Self driving cars in general are a useless technology demo. Not just TSLA (although more so because of the repeated false claims). It’s a way for the car industry to fight against their extinction. In the beginning the argument was: “it’s not the cars killing people, it’s the damn ‘jay walkers’ (term invented by auto industry, btw). Get those people off the road and cram them into the sides of the streets so my fat c…

> people have been realizing how car centric transportation cannot scale (ie, induced demand)

Car centric transportation scales just fine. That’s why most people still prefer it today, at scale. And induced demand isn’t real - it’s just unmet demand. If people want to make more trips, then it makes sense to expand roads to help them do that.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#185

Post by primitivesuave »

FSD is not ready. I'm a Model Y owner, tend to lean pro-Elon, and will gladly tell you that it's a fantastic car - but the self-driving is still not ready. My free month of autopilot made me trust it less. It's quite good at highway driving, but the phantom braking and haphazard lane changing has eroded my trust to the point that I am manually driving the car 100% of the time.

I prefer the previous pseudo-FSD which simply stayed in the current lane, and relied on human input for anything more than that. This whole FSD update has been a sobering realization that I really only want the safety features.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#186

Post by drcode »

throwup238 wrote: post #183
drcode wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm just a bad driver, but it feels much safer to me having two entities paying attention, instead of just one It's much more comfortable not to have to micromanage the exact position of the car at every moment, as a manual driver does I think your "automatic driving" argument is wishful thinking

> I think your "automatic driving" argument is wishful thinking See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automaticity It’s a well known phenomenon.

I don't dispute that people get used to driving, but I think arguing that "driving" requires the same amount of effort as "not driving" is a more specious claim

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#187

Post by TheAlchemist »

drcode wrote: post #162
lucianbr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the guy who died when his Telsa drove under a truck would have written a similar comment the day before. What do you think? I mean this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...

Please stop using anecdotes and provide safety statistics in your argument, like this: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/10/Tesla...

If you care about statistics, you would check those numbers, and find that they are basically bullshit.

Tesla does not release any verifiable data on FSD / Autopilot, and for a good reason (good for them).

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#188

Post by [deleted] »

drcode wrote: post #162
lucianbr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the guy who died when his Telsa drove under a truck would have written a similar comment the day before. What do you think? I mean this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...

Please stop using anecdotes and provide safety statistics in your argument, like this: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/10/Tesla...

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#189

Post by ben_w »

joeldo wrote: post #98
rvnx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it sort of works in limited cases. FSD is like ChatGPT, it works in many cases, it does some mistakes, but it is certainly not “useless”. It won’t replace full time humans yet (the same way that ChatGPT does not replace a developer) but can still work in some scenarios. To the investor, ChatGPT is sold as “AGI is just round the corner”.

I guess the difference is ChatGPT is less likely to cause death if it makes a mistake. Users generally have time to decide if the output ChatGPT provides is accurate and worth actioning.

At this point, I'd be surprised if ChatGPT has not yet given someone a response which caused them to make a mistake that resulted in a death.

We found out about the lawyers citing ChatGPT because they were called out by a judge. We find out about Google Maps errors when someone drives off a broken bridge.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/us/father-death-google-gp...

For other LLMs we see mistakes bold enough that everyone can recognise them — the headlines about Google's LLM suggesting eating rocks and putting glue on your pizza (at least it said "non-toxic glue").

All it takes is some subtle mistake. The strength and the weakness of the best LLMs is their domain knowledge is part way between a normal person and a domain expert — good enough to receive trust, not enough to deserve it.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#190

Post by kalleboo »

drcode wrote: post #162
lucianbr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the guy who died when his Telsa drove under a truck would have written a similar comment the day before. What do you think? I mean this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...

Please stop using anecdotes and provide safety statistics in your argument, like this: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/10/Tesla...

"Tesla vehicles not using Autopilot technology" did not even have basic AEB
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