How the fuck do you counterfeit titanium it’s one of those things that is either or it’s not.
“JavaScript engineer confidently makes assertion about actual engineering”
FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
181–190 of 267 posts
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> FAA has their hands full investigating problems _after_ they become problems The FAA is constantly auditing, certifying and testing airmen, airplanes and plants. They have their hands full. But it's totally incorrect to say they're an ex post facto investigations agency.
> The FAA is constantly auditing, certifying and testing airmen, airplanes and plants. Are they? Much of the work that would be done to inspect and certify the planes being manufactured was outsourced to the manufacturers to increase efficiency. They build their planes, inspect their planes, inspect and approve modifications and major repairs to their planes, and issue their own airworthiness certificates for their p…
Seems like there is a lot of criticism of the FAA while ignoring real time cuts to their budget. Looking at 2005 they had 14bn, 22.5bn in today’s money. Last years budget was 18.5bn.
I am sure there is waste and opportunities for improvement but… that ignores the significant increase in flights, new planes etc. that has ballooned much faster than the crude time value of money calc above. Criticising them for doing less with, umm, less seems a bit rich. Especially as others (not necessarily you in this comment) then use that a reason for more cuts to agencies.
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#183For anyone immediately going to UAF 232 as an example please realize that this is titanium used in the air frame not the engine. The engine is under dramatically higher loads and is far more material fault intolerant. I'm not saying this isn't serious issue but this is not as severe a concern, otherwise the planes would be grounded already.
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
For anyone reading this, Spirit Aerosystems is -not- Spirit Airlines. Different company, they manufacture aircraft parts for Boeing, Airbus, etc.
I watched a documentary that said Spirit came when the Boeing bean counters divided up the company to make a quick profit and be able to shift Blake to Spirit. They replaced vertical integration with circular blame.
> They replaced vertical integration with circular blame.
Not sure if you came up with that line but it's gold.
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another article said it was sourced from the Chinese. This detail was suspiciously deleted from this one.
Turkish supplier who reportedly got it from a Chinese supplier, and where they got it from is unknown since the Chinese supplier apparently forged the certificates using the name of a Chinese source (apparently in good standing) who say they did not make it. The actual source at this point is unknown, only a couple links in the supply chain.
Yeah...that stuff is probably all going in the trash. :/
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> crew resource management That doesn't mean what I'd assumed it would by mean just looking at the term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management
Airlines have figured out that people suck at multitasking.
Airlines are almost "lucky" in the sense that when they mess up training and processes, people die. As a result, they are somewhat motivated to fix it.
In other industries, we say "that didn't work, VCs, can I have another $2M" and are just told "yup, of course!" As a result, we learn slow.
Personally, I stole checklists from aviation and love it. I remember one week I was on vacation and we needed to do a complicated migration. I prepared a checklist for the migration, and someone other than me did it. There was no downtime. We used the same checklists for future migrations, and again, nothing forgotten, nothing missed. It may be obvious to say "landing checklist: gear down" but it's effective.
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't downvote them, but didn't upvote either. "Chinesium" - the supplier it was traced to is Chinese, but the source is unknown beyond that because the documents are falsified. It's also not yet clear if there is a quality issue, the tested parts and materials are turning out ok so far but the lack of provenance makes it difficult to know with any confidence how long the material will last. It could be the right…
> For all we know, this is Russian in source What is the source of this claim? I don't see it in NYT paper. > but given false documents to get it sold on the open market bypassing some sanctions It was sold in 2019, long before sanctions on titanium exports.
> What is the source of this claim? I don't see it in NYT paper.
The claim is "we don't know", with Russia only being mentioned as a direct counterpoint to someone assuming it isn't Russian titanium.
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#188Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I'm selling croissants." Gives you Haggis. "Well it's all food so what's the big deal, stop regulating me."
That doesn't describe this case at all though? It's more like you got your croissants but without a name brand or receipt.
> It's more like you got your croissants but without a name brand or receipt.
No, because the structural integrity might not be there. A food analogy doesn't really work well, but the effect of mixing up different titanium manufacturing processes could easily be as extreme as having a completely different type of food. But much harder to test for!
Re: FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets
#190Ive often wondered whether poor quality counterfeit parts are being inserted into the supply chain as a form of industrial sabotage by competitors (including nation-states).
This is a well known exploit, and is proven effective in times of conflict. I think it is safe to assume that such efforts are ongoing in many corners of the world at any given time.