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AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

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Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#181

Post by dzaima »

camel-cdr wrote: post #45
buildbot wrote: post #26

AVX512 in a single cycle vs 2 cycles is big if the clock speed can be maintained at all near 5GHz. Also doubling of L1 cache bandwidth is interesting! Possibly, needed to actually feed an AVX512 rich instruction stream I guess.

AVX512 was never over 2 cycles. In Zen4 it used the 256 wide execution units of avx2 (except for shuffle), but there are more then one 256-bit wide execution units, so you still got your one cycle throughput.

More importantly for the "2 cycles" question, Zen 4 can get one cycle latency for double-pumped 512-bit ops (for the ops where that's reasonable, i.e. basic integer/bitwise arith).

Having all 512-bit pipes would still be a massive throughput improvement over Zen 4 (as long as pipe count is less than halved), if that is what Zen 5 actually does; things don't stop at 1 op/cycle. Though a rather important question with that would be where that leaves AVX2 code.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#182

Post by resource_waste »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #48
aurareturn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems wrong. Though Blender may have an optimization for avx512 but not for SME or Neon. But the vast majority will use GPUs to do rendering for Blender. Try SPEC or its close consumer counterpart, Geekbench. As an anecdote, all my Python and Node.js applications run faster on Apple Silicon than Zen4. Even my multithread Go apps seem to run better on Apple Silicon.

"But the vast majority will use GPUs to do rendering for Blender." And the argument is, you can't use Blender to compare CPU performance because of that? "Even my multithread Go apps seem to run better on Apple Silicon." As a Go developer, I'd love to hear your story: How much faster does your Apple Silicon compile compare to a Zen4 (e.g. the 7950x?)? For example 100k lines of Go code. I might switch back to Apple ag…

> How much faster does your Apple Silicon compile compare to a Zen4 (e.g. the 7950x?)?

Good ol, compare a $400 piece of equipment with a $3000 piece of equipment. I wonder what will win. (unironically, most of the time, the $3000 piece of equipment doesnt win)

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#183

Post by isoos »

irusensei wrote: post #160

I'll probably wait one or two years before getting into anything with DDR5. I've blew some money on an AMD laptop in 2021. At the time it was a monster with decent expansion options: RX 6800m, Ryzen 9 5900HX. I've stuck it with maximum 64GB DDR4 and 2x 4TB psi 3.0 nvme. Runs Linux very well. But now I'm seeing lots of things I'm locked out. Faster ethernet standards, the fun that brings with tons of GPU memory (no US…

It sounds like you need a desktop workstation with replaceable extension cards, and not a mostly immutable laptop, which has different strengths.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#184

Post by resource_waste »

nubinetwork wrote: post #67

I'd love to replace my 2950x, but most desktop motherboards still don't support 128gb of memory.

Kind of a shame, given how cheap 512gb is.

With LLMs, I feel like the line between consumer and professional is getting blurred.

Not that CPU is really reasonable for LLMs that big...

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#185

Post by mavhc »

fourfour3 wrote: post #120
aaomidi wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t wait for my games to start hallucinating narration.

Exactly this. I want plot/character driven games like RPGs to be a curated & carefully designed, plotted, and paced experience. I want speech & narrative to be scripted! It means someone sat down and thought about the experience it produces for the player. It means a real voice actor has performed it, putting the right emotion and pacing into the line. I don't want AI generated stilted dialogue, uncanny valley speech…

You want your NPCs to be limited in their conversations, to only follow a set few paths, if you think of a way to play the game that's not been anticipated years ago, you don't want that to be possible

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#186

Post by mmaniac »

Tepix wrote: post #149

It's weird that CPUs tend to use more power every two years now instead of less. Looks like this time, the TDP didn't increase. Yay! i guess. Don't most people think their PCs are fast enough already? It's as if our planet wasn't being destroyed at a frightening speed. We're headed towards a cliff, but instead if braking, we're accelerating.

The people who think PCs are already fast enough don't buy CPUs every year.

A 7950X in Eco mode is ridiculously capable for the power it pulls but that's less of a selling point.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#187

Post by KingOfCoders »

resource_waste wrote: post #182
KingOfCoders wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But the vast majority will use GPUs to do rendering for Blender." And the argument is, you can't use Blender to compare CPU performance because of that? "Even my multithread Go apps seem to run better on Apple Silicon." As a Go developer, I'd love to hear your story: How much faster does your Apple Silicon compile compare to a Zen4 (e.g. the 7950x?)? For example 100k lines of Go code. I might switch back to Apple ag…

> How much faster does your Apple Silicon compile compare to a Zen4 (e.g. the 7950x?)? Good ol, compare a $400 piece of equipment with a $3000 piece of equipment. I wonder what will win. (unironically, most of the time, the $3000 piece of equipment doesnt win)

What is this $400 piece of equipment?

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#188

Post by ChoGGi »

vegabook wrote: post #163
mmaniac wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question is almost rhetorical. Yes, competition drives innovation. When Ryzen APUs only had Intel to worry about, they rested on their laurels with stagnating but still superior performance. Intel did the same thing with 4c/8t desktop CPUs during the Bulldozer dark age. SoCs are good for the segments they target but they're by no means the be-all-end-all of personal computing. The performance of discrete graphic…

as soon as someone puts 16GB of VRAM next to an SoC (Nvidia, soon), the gaming pc is dead. These hot 'n slow discrete components are fun to decorate with RGB but they're yesterday for _all_ segments.

> they're yesterday for _all_ segments

That implies to me that you expect an SOC to perform the same as or better than a 5090?

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#189

Post by michaelt »

antisthenes wrote: post #177
michaelt wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - with more and more users moving to laptops and wanting a longer battery life, raw peak performance hasn't moved much in a decade. A decade ago, Steam's hardware survey said 8GB was the most popular amount of RAM [1] and today, the latest $1600 Macbook Pro comes with.... 8GB of RAM. In some ways that's been a good thing - it used to be that software got more and more featureful/bloated and you needed a new compu…

> it used to be that software got more and more featureful/bloated and you needed a new computer every 3-5 years just to keep up. I'm sorry, "used to be" ? 90% of the last decade of hardware advancement was eaten up by shoddy bloated software, where we now have UI lag on the order of seconds, 8GB+ of memory used all the time by god knows what and a few browser tabs and 1 core always peaking in util (again, doing god…

I don't dispute that software is currently bloated - I'm just saying the rate of increase of bloat is now much reduced.

Taking Steam's hardware survey as an example, from 2004 [1] to 2014 [2] RAM increased from 512 MB to 8 GB.

From 2014 to 2024 [3] RAM increased from 8 GB to 16 GB.

Software has bloated by 2x in a decade. But in the preceding decade, it bloated by 16x so keeping it down to a mere 2x is quite restrained in comparison.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20040630214045/http://steampower... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20140228170316/http://store.stea... [3] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#190

Post by dotnet00 »

Tepix wrote: post #149

It's weird that CPUs tend to use more power every two years now instead of less. Looks like this time, the TDP didn't increase. Yay! i guess. Don't most people think their PCs are fast enough already? It's as if our planet wasn't being destroyed at a frightening speed. We're headed towards a cliff, but instead if braking, we're accelerating.

The TDP increases slower than the efficiency, so for the same workload, a newer CPU consumes similar or less power. Especially nowadays, most of these chips only get anywhere near the stated TDP when being near fully maxed out.
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