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Kino: Pro Video Camera

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Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#181

Post by sandofsky »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #165
z5h wrote: post #26

As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a real phono on my iPhone. I use it all the time without issue. And would recommend it to any photographer. So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried A…

I paid for Halide and almost immediately afterward, they announced a policy of locking new features made after whatever version you had bought unless you bought it a second time. It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit. I won't make that mistake again.

It sounds like you bought Halide 1. At the time, we had supported Halide 1 for three years of huge feature updates when we launched Halide Mark II. Rather than just drop Halide 1, we gave everyone Mark II and a year of additional updates.

The alternative would have been to just release a separate app called Halide 2 and stop updating Halide 1. In that case, version 1 would probably fall apart pretty quickly due to OS and camera changes year to year.

I’m genuinely curious if you’d have preferred we stopped updating Halide 1, because we’re always trying to find the best way to support users while keeping the light on.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#182

Post by Clamchop »

fragmede wrote: post #168
KennyBlanken wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid for Halide and almost immediately afterward, they announced a policy of locking new features made after whatever version you had bought unless you bought it a second time. It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit. I won't make that mistake again.

why would buying an old version entitle you to a new version?

"Entitled" seems like an inappropriate word here. OP isn't entitled to the software, and the publisher isn't entitled to repeat customers or the perception of being a good value.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#183

Post by lukevp »

dylan604 wrote: post #167
caseyy wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is color grading applied if not with LUTs? You know that when you do color grading with apps like Resolve, it is stored in memory as a LUT, right?

> How is color grading applied if not with LUTs? No absolutely not. In Resolve specifically, you have nodes that you apply to the video where each node allows for specific settings to be applied as part of the grade. In a true grading session, you dial in the settings for black levels, white levels, contrast, saturation as primaries. Then there's secondaries which start finessing. You can then draw windows/mattes to…

I also thought grading was just LUTs. Does kino let you do all of the things you mentioned directly in the app?

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#184

Post by ein0p »

z5h wrote: post #26

As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a real phono on my iPhone. I use it all the time without issue. And would recommend it to any photographer. So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried A…

One time fee + good software = instant purchase from me as well. Subscription usually means no deal. I don’t lease my tools.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#185

Post by zamadatix »

I really appreciate that the app is just an up front price! I probably don't really need it but at that price and straightforwardness it's not really a big loss if I don't use it much so I grabbed it. I looked at the other apps and realized they had made Halide as well which I tried out for a bit, for some reason thought it was subscription only & decided I didn't want it that much while clearing out subscriptions, and just (re)noticed they say you can buy it outright too. Initially I probably saw a high price tag and wanted to see how long I'd really like it for but going back into the app I can't seem to find the straightforward purchase option (perhaps because my initial year subscription hasn't expired?) which means I can't find how much it is without searching the net.

Perhaps I'm just uneducated and there is a place to still see it in the app with an active subscription or see the IAP price on the app store but even if there were it'd all just be a pain compared to "It's $9.99, wanna buy?" in your face at the app store and anywhere you read about it.

The only other (very minor) thing that gave me a startle was the onboarding process asks if you want to go "starter" or some other more advanced category. I thought I missed that it would try to upsell you until I reread and saw it meant I could select either layout type out of the box. Not sure that's really the apps fault as much as my paranoia after having just checked through all the above and being left thinking I missed something.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#186

Post by ricardobeat »

gdubs wrote: post #174
baby wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just looked at two pomodoro apps on the app store, one had a one-time purchase fee, the other had a subscription only model. It's a freaking pomodoro app! I can't believe I have to pay for that in the first place (why doesn't the countdown app of Apple not have a widget =.=) but a subscription? People are greedy af.

People are so used to the zero interest rate period of tech that everyone expects the pricing model of VC backed startups that can burn money forever and maybe figure out a business model at some point. Software costs time and money. People complain that they don't want the same uninspired corporate created junk – and then they balk at paying indie developers a reasonable amount for apps. So much work goes into this…

I’m not sure what your point was. Is this in defense or against IaP?

Most people don’t balk at paying fair prices for an app, but the definition has drifted so far that €7/month (€84/year) is described as “fair” for a simple timer, and that is plain absurd.

Halide goes for €69 one-time purchase, or €12,50/year. For professional software that is really well designed and is actually kept up to date. This should be the benchmark.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#187

Post by sneak »

vile_wretch wrote: post #83
sneak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Halide one time purchase is $60, and I carry a full frame mirrorless (rx1) with me at all times. Also, while I understand your QA issue, I won’t spend money on apps that phone home against my will, on basis of principle.

So then it objectively isn't "IAP subscriptionware cancer"..

Halide is $3 for a month, $12 for a year, or $60 for perpetual. $25-30 for perpetual would be reasonable.

Kino costs $10 for perpetual, for reference.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#188

Post by yumraj »

hiatus wrote: post #147
yumraj wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are greedy af. Personally, for smaller developers, I attribute this more to ignorance than malice (greed). Pricing is hard so they just look around and pick what they see happening around them without taking a moment even to think, forget about doing actual research.

These smaller developers go through the trouble of building an app and getting verified for distribution on the App Store but don't give even a moment's thought to pricing? Surely the easiest option is free compared to some arbitrary monthly price and having to set up payments, etc.

Obviously they want to be paid.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#189

Post by dylan604 »

lukevp wrote: post #183
dylan604 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is color grading applied if not with LUTs? No absolutely not. In Resolve specifically, you have nodes that you apply to the video where each node allows for specific settings to be applied as part of the grade. In a true grading session, you dial in the settings for black levels, white levels, contrast, saturation as primaries. Then there's secondaries which start finessing. You can then draw windows/mattes to…

I also thought grading was just LUTs. Does kino let you do all of the things you mentioned directly in the app?

Might I ask why this is all you thought a grading session involved? Clearly, this is a touchy subject for me as I spent a few years as an assistant to a very talented colorist. The plethora of YouTube videos saying color correct using my amazing LUTs available when you join my Patreon blah blah nonsense is really sad.

There are some truly amazing colorists, and then there are people that claim they are colorists when they just applied a LUT. I would be embarassed to call myself a colorist that way. With my experience, I still do not call myself a colorist. I also don't go around calling myself a DP because I own a camera and make pretty pictures, yet people go around with no real training calling themselves that because it's cool.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#190

Post by malshe »

al_borland wrote: post #73

I'm tempted to buy this while it's discounted, but if I'm a realist, I've taken 7 videos this year for a total of 2 minutes 47 seconds. I'm probably not the target market, but I'm glad to know options like this exist.

I am with you on this one. I looked through my photo library and realized that the last video I took was from the New Year's Eve :)
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