Live data from Hacker News

North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

bbc.co.uk

181–190 of 233 posts

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#181
Wrapping the reality around computer ssytems that supposed to (and proclaim themselves so) solve any problem.

Post office scandal about the inability to add numbers, a tiny line f uk the whole system, and we want to give your life into the hands of AI systems. What can go wrong?

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#182

As far as I can tell, this isn't an issue with the specific database itself, but the standard they are required to record geographic data in, which the end of the article mentions as "BS 7666". https://www.agi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/BS7666Guid... # Standard data types used in BS 7666 CharacterString: a sequence of alphanumeric characters ... If I had to guess, alphanumeric is interpreted as [0-9a-z]. The s…

I believe standards are the minimum, not the maximum to implement, don't you think so?!

Why those dare to implement - and explain - standards who cannot comprehend their purpose?....

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#183
post #65

You can print apostrophes on a street sign without any database issues because a street sign doesn't interface directly with a database. At least not yet... All the technical issues here have already been solved a hundred times, there's plenty of other options. It's a little worrying that we're eliminating punctuation in real life because of issues with integrating with geographical databases.

This routinely happens to names. Even now you get systems which refuse to deal with O', let alone non-English characters.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#184
post #65

You can print apostrophes on a street sign without any database issues because a street sign doesn't interface directly with a database. At least not yet... All the technical issues here have already been solved a hundred times, there's plenty of other options. It's a little worrying that we're eliminating punctuation in real life because of issues with integrating with geographical databases.

You are talking about the country where accounting systems cannot add numbers...

And people believe anything that comes out of a computer regardless of thousands of signs that something is really not right.

They rather prosecute others without doubt on mass scale rather than look into themselves.

(see the Post Office scandal)

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, the OpenStreetMap project considers road signage to be unquestionable "ground truth". If the sign changes, the map changes. We can't use any other database because that might not be available under a compatible licence.

Just because something is written on a road sign does not make it magically copyright or license free. I know a business which has to pay a nominal $1 license fee for the names of its own stores to a map maker, simply because the business has lost any evidence that it had the names before the map maker put them in the map.

> Just because something is written on a road sign does not make it magically copyright or license free.

That's untrue; facts can't be copyrighted. Whether there's a road sign or not, the name of the road is not subject to copyright, but if there is a road sign, then it's really easy to prove that your claim about the road is an uncopyrightable fact.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#186
post #95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, this is because of a standard they're required to conform to, not database software in specific: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40265929 > As far as I can tell, this isn't an issue with the specific database itself, but the standard they are required to record geographic data in, which the end of the article mentions as "BS 7666". On the other hand, you’re naïve if you think English hasn’t already b…

The Linotype machine supported fl, ff, ffi, ℔, œ, and æ. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Linotype... linked to from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine . Or see https://archive.org/details/LinotypeKeyboardPractice/page/n9... . Even cheap printing presses could handle more than you think. Here's a type case layout from 1846, again with æ, œ, fl, ff, and ffi, fi and ffl. https://archive.org/deta…

Did it support þ? That would be the best-known example of written English being changed to accommodate a printing press rather than the other way around.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#187
I used to live in North Yorkshire until I moved away to start a job in mainland Europe.

When I moved I tried to fill in the form on their website to indicate that I wouldn't be paying the council tax on the house I used to live in anymore. Weirdly I couldn't make the form work, it broke with weird errors about timing out. After some headscratching I decided (on a whim) to change my computer's timezone back to GMT and hilariously the form started working perfectly.

Sadly I couldn't finish filling in the form, because it required a postcode for my new address, and would ONLY accept postcodes which matched the UK format (which my new address, in a different country obviously didn't match).

You shouldn't be surprised about any IT insanity from North Yorkshire Council, they are impressively incompetent.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol no. arguably the word ain't is more proper English than Chris' or boss'

You pronounce both of your examples with two S phonemes at the end. Putting that in the written form is absolutely Ok.

> You pronounce both of your examples with two S phonemes at the end.

Um... what? Pronouncing a possessive suffix with /səs/ isn't valid anywhere. The only possibility is /səz/. Same goes for the plural suffix.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#190
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linotype machine supported fl, ff, ffi, ℔, œ, and æ. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Linotype... linked to from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine . Or see https://archive.org/details/LinotypeKeyboardPractice/page/n9... . Even cheap printing presses could handle more than you think. Here's a type case layout from 1846, again with æ, œ, fl, ff, and ffi, fi and ffl. https://archive.org/deta…

Did it support þ? That would be the best-known example of written English being changed to accommodate a printing press rather than the other way around.

No. But that doesn't really fit since þ had mostly died out by the 1300s, with only few remaining uses by Caxton's printing - long before the 1800s.

I also wouldn't call those typewriters or cheap printing presses.

Post reply on HN