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Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

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Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#181

Post by ImHereToVote »

brabel wrote: post #58
nu11ptr wrote: post #19

As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…

Maybe people will make fun of me, but I've been very happy with Kotlin and Dart. Null-safe, good ergonomics, very fast. I've tried Rust, sometimes play with C, D, Deno/TS, Nim, Java (actually I still write lots of it) and even some more cutting-edge stuff, like Unison. While they're cool, what I want is a language with really good tooling that gets out of my way without letting me write patently dumb code (like Java…

Flutter sounds so awesome but really want something like OpenGL for it.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#182

Post by erikbye »

Rust... what is it good for? "Systems programming" ...

Rust is not good for raw performance. Neither for prototyping and iteration.

Personally I think operating systems (kernels) should be as performant as possible, and C/C++ has been good enough for decades.

Anyone really unhappy with Linux/BSD/Windows/macOS performance?

What systems are we talking about that benefits from Rust? Advanced weapon systems that should absolutely not fail? Controllers for air planes? Traffic controllers? Radar? Power grid?

Google, fb, amazon, etc. use C/C++ to squeeze the most performance out of anything I/O heavy, and security is not an issue that deep in the stack, that's not the exploitation layer.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#183

Post by hot_gril »

telekid wrote: post #28

This article describes almost exactly why I think gradual typing is actually a good thing. Type checkers shouldn't get in the way of your code compiling. Yes, the language has to be designed with this property from the beginning. Yes, you should always enforce complete checking in CI. But you should also be able to try half-baked ideas.

It's also pointless to care about types in fine-scoped code. Like if your language forces me to assert that i is an integer like this, something is wrong...

  for (int i = 0; i
And when I'm writing backends, usually there will be no types anywhere except at the API layer, i.e. OpenAPI spec or protocol buffers. Not once have I encountered a bug related to accidental wrong types that wasn't caught at this outermost layer.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#184

Post by usrusr »

mjr00 wrote: post #73

In my experience, fundamentally when you're starting a software project, you need to make a strong up-front decision between two things: 1. I am using technology in order to build this thing. 2. I am building this thing in order to use this technology. Developers often fall in the (2) camp but don't admit it. There's an allure to using the new, sexy tech that will solve all their problems, whether that's Rust, Kubern…

How about "I'm building this thing and I want it to enjoy the unique combination of performance and memory safety offered by this technology"?

It's certainly close to (1), but also a perfectly rational way to be a The Rust Way fundamentalist avoiding refcounting and unsafe who appears suspiciously (2).

The "rewrite in Rust" meme surely does not come from thin air and there is certainly some skill honing and challenge seeking involved. But perhaps a rewrite ever couple of decades isn't all that bad? And if it isn't, could there be a better time for it than "in Rust"?

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#185

Post by h4x0rr »

erikbye wrote: post #182

Rust... what is it good for? "Systems programming" ... Rust is not good for raw performance. Neither for prototyping and iteration. Personally I think operating systems (kernels) should be as performant as possible, and C/C++ has been good enough for decades. Anyone really unhappy with Linux/BSD/Windows/macOS performance? What systems are we talking about that benefits from Rust? Advanced weapon systems that should a…

[flagged]

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#186

Post by indigoabstract »

I've become wary of commenting on articles that mention the pros and cons of various languages, but I still find it strange that so many people are so strongly focused on what their favourite language can do (usually better than others), instead of the project they're working on. When it should be the other way around.

The joke he mentioned about having 50 engines written but only 5 games certainly rings true and I don't think the language is the main problem preventing people from getting their projects done..

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#187

Post by kibwen »

fidotron wrote: post #71

Starting by saying I fundamentally agree wrt iteration speed. This is ultimately why [C/C++]/Lua was such a thing for a while, and it seems quite plausible that you could benefit from a core engine in rust bound to a scripting language. But ultimately I sense the subtext here is much the same as with other Rust problems: the object oriented baby has been thrown out with the bathwater, often in the name of premature o…

> but also with a sense of misplaced religious purity regarding the evils of state

To clarify, Rust isn't against state at all. Rust bends over backwards to make mutation possible, when it would have been far easier (and slower, and less usable) to have a fully-immutable language. What Rust is against is global mutable state, and an aversion to global mutable state isn't a religious position, it's a pragmatic position, because global mutable state makes concurrency (and reasoning about your code in general) completely intractable.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#188

Post by ReleaseCandidat »

Scramblejams wrote: post #50
nu11ptr wrote: post #19

As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…

I've been hoping to see more languages that compile to Go, it might be the most practical way to arrive at what you want. For example, see Borgo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36847594

> I've been hoping to see more languages that compile to Go

One could also use Go-Assembler as a cross-platform assembly target: https://go.dev/doc/asm

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#189

Post by andrepd »

alex_lav wrote: post #144
andrepd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please give an example of that? Rust is very much advertised as a systems programming language . Can't really blame people for using it and going "oh it's harder than go and python"...

From the website: > From startups to large corporations, from embedded devices to scalable web services, Rust is a great fit. Are these "systems"? FWIW "systems" does not appear on the Rust home page. From wikipedia: > Rust is a multi-paradigm, general-purpose programming language that emphasizes performance, type safety, and concurrency.

>performance, type safety, and concurrency

So... a systems programming language? x)

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#190

Post by obdev »

chimen wrote: post #103
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need for you to blather about "woke" and drag in US culture wars nonsense. It's distasteful, glib, and frankly not very intelligent, and just subtracts from whatever your point was.

As I said above, cult-like. They will swiftly call you names if you even dare to question their beliefs. Thank you for proving me right kind sir.

Your post is "flagged" to oblivion, just like my earlier post questioning the "inclusive" culture of the Rust community.

What is it called when a person or group's actions don't match their words?

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