Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

statnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 263 posts

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#181

Post by cycomanic »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #119
CWIZO wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A plant-based diet is cheaper than a regular diet: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...

Looking at Tesco online in UK: there's a soy protein 'mince' a £3.72/kg. Beef or chicken mince at £5. Quorn mycoprotein at £8.33. Beyond Meat at £13. Out of the 5 vegan and 8 vegetarian options, only the soy protein is cheaper than meat. I might replace one meal a week with the soy protein, but I'd be concerned about long term effects of phytoestrogen, especially on growing children? Mind you many foods have some hid…

Why do you need a "minced meat" substitute anyway? Compare your minced meat to a can of beans which one is cheaper.

Moreover, it is well established research that most modern western diets contain too much animal products. If you think that living vegetarian causes so much problems, you need to explain how many cultures who live almost exclusively vegetarian (e.g. In some areas of India) without significant health problems.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#182

Post by someplaceguy »

triceratops wrote: post #180
someplaceguy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if m…

That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.

> That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat.

So... if you take the meat out what does that leave you with?

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#183

Post by triceratops »

someplaceguy wrote: post #182
triceratops wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.

> That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. So... if you take the meat out what does that leave you with?

Who orders just fries and a Coke?

People eat junk food because it tastes good. Period. Not because they didn't get enough meat or some BS like that. Meat-eaters eat fries. Vegetarians eat fries. Everyone eats fries. They're delicious.

If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. You just have to broaden your culinary horizons. I'm not even a vegetarian or vegan, have no plans to be one, and I still recognize this.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#184

Post by londons_explore »

drewcon wrote: post #42
londons_explore wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mixing milk dramatically increases these chances. If each person drinks milk from one cow, and there are 1 million of each, then you have 1 million chances. A chance is higher if a cow has a few mutations in its viruses, or if a person has a slightly different receptor or immune system... But if you put all the milk from the 1 million cows in a mixing vat and then distribute it to the same 1 million people, now there…

The virus is killed by pasteurization. There is no live virus in the milk.

Milk in the US is pasteurized at 63C for 30 minutes.

> The results show that at 54.5 °C, the virus [SARS-CoV-2] half-life was 10.8 ± 3.0 min and the time for a 90% decrease in infectivity was 35.4 ± 9.0 min. [1]

At 8.5 degrees hotter, I'm sure stuff happens quicker, but I doubt very much it kills them all. This study is in air - in liquid I imagine they would survive to a higher temperature.

It's far from clear that all virus particles are inactivated by pasteurization. Remember the main purpose of pasteurization is to kill most bacteria, to increase shelf life.

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7856623/

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#185

Post by bluGill »

ceejayoz wrote: post #132
bluGill wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not dairy farms. Those are where cattle are fattened up just before slaughter. Very different situation. Cattle farms also take biosecurity seriously, but so far they have not worried about birds. Diary cows are kept inside and isolated from everything else since if the cow is sick you have to treat it and dump all milk obtained for a month afterwards.

The article indicates "30% to 40% of those samples test positive". Clearly, spread is occurring, indoors or out. ("The cows never get to see the sun" doesn't really sell me on factory farming, either.) Side note: The second photo is noted as a dairy on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_farming#Concerns .

Spread is occurring. However you have given no reason to think factory farms are in any way at fault.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#186

Post by someplaceguy »

triceratops wrote: post #183
someplaceguy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. So... if you take the meat out what does that leave you with?

Who orders just fries and a Coke? People eat junk food because it tastes good. Period. Not because they didn't get enough meat or some BS like that. Meat-eaters eat fries. Vegetarians eat fries. Everyone eats fries. They're delicious. If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. You just have to broaden your culinary horizons. I'm not even a vegetarian or vegan, have no…

> If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there.

But most people will not find, enjoy or choose food with both of those qualities, not to mention that they are a minority over what's commonly available -- and even if they are available, they'd probably become too expensive if consumption increased significantly.

Most of the time they'd have to choose between "delicious foods" or "nutritious foods", but not both, and you know they'd choose the former.

If you take out meat, you'll simply reduce the pool of available (good) choices. You'll have a strictly worse outcome than what you had before (except for the animals, admittedly).

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#187

Post by triceratops »

someplaceguy wrote: post #186
triceratops wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who orders just fries and a Coke? People eat junk food because it tastes good. Period. Not because they didn't get enough meat or some BS like that. Meat-eaters eat fries. Vegetarians eat fries. Everyone eats fries. They're delicious. If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. You just have to broaden your culinary horizons. I'm not even a vegetarian or vegan, have no…

> If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. But most people will not find, enjoy or choose food with both of those qualities, not to mention that they are a minority over what's commonly available -- and even if they are available, they'd probably become too expensive if consumption increased significantly. Most of the time they'd have to choose between "delicious foo…

> If you take out meat, you'll simply reduce the pool of available (good) choices

Only if we forced everyone to give up meat at gunpoint. Most people who choose to go meat-free, and stick with it, end up finding tasty and nutritious food that works for them.

> even when they are available, they are usually too expensive to become a common staple.

People automatically assume that giving up meat means salads and tofu all day, bought in 2oz packages from Whole Foods while wearing Lululemon yoga pants. And you gotta throw in the $10 artisan kombucha while you're at it.

Beans, lentils, and green peas are far cheaper and healthier than any meat or Impossible burger. You can get them at your local Indian or Mexican grocer for less than $1/lb. Or tofu and seitan from Costco or 99 Ranch Market. A little soybean paste or mushroom broth adds a blast of umami. That's what I mean by "broadening your culinary horizons".

And no beans can never become more expensive than meat, even if more people start eating them. It's simple thermodynamics. Look at the poorest countries on Earth - I guarantee you they eat more beans and lentils than meat. That's what a "common staple" is. If they can afford it, anyone can.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#188

Post by kelipso »

triceratops wrote: post #180
someplaceguy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if m…

That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.

> You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.

That's a disgusting fast-food derived dietary preference. Healthy meat-centric diet does not look anything like that.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#189

Post by ethbr1 »

triceratops wrote: post #151
ethbr1 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what a key source of protein is in chicken feed? Crab/fish meal. Which is to say leftovers after processing, dried and ground. https://www.feedipedia.org/node/664 At the end of the day, non-pasture food animal raising boils down to getting enough nutrients and time into them to hit your target slaughter weight, subject to feed conversion ratio for the species. Cheaper nutrients = higher margins or lower prod…

Chickens eat worms. Feeding them crab or fish meal is fine. Cows are herbivores. Feeding them meat is abhorrent.

> Feeding them meat is abhorrent.

"Meat" is a relative term though.

If I dry carcasses with some muscle and tissue still on them, grind it up into a powder, and add that powder to grain, is that meat?

"For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return," etc.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#190

Post by kelipso »

beardedwizard wrote: post #73
tyfon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt milks are usually ultra processed and quite unhealthy compared to regular milk. Not sure this is a viable alternative.

The op is likely quoting one of the recent 'hit piece' style articles talking about ultra processed foods and trying to argue nut milk is less healthy because it may not always have calcium. It's pretty absurd, and the basis for the claim is fairly well explained here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8634539/ It is ultra processed in name, not nutrition. By the way, humans are the only species drinking t…

Nut milks in stores almost always have additives, mainly preservatives, which are questionable in terms of healthiness. Now store sold oat milks in particular are very unhealthy, if I remember right it was oatly that has 30% by calorie percentage of canola oil. Cannot get worse that this but so many vegan products do this exact same thing where they stuff whatever processed meat substitute product they sell with canola oil and other ridiculously unhealthy and gross ingredients.
Post reply on HN