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Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

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Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#181

Post by belligeront »

momofuku wrote: post #164

I'd recommend folks read the last section of the announcement where these changes were announced [1]. The section is titled "Mission First", and I'm pretty sure the recent altercations at Google Cloud's offices over the past week [2] motivated much of the writing in this section. This seems like a stark change in how things happened at Google, and to put it explicitly in a blog was something I couldn't imagined to ha…

I find the use of "this is a business" logic to dissuade political discussion about a company's own business practices to be extremely troubling. Yes, there can be a discussion about the proper way to have these conversations, but dismissing discussion of ethics with an attitude of "this is a business" has lead to some horrific outcomes throughout history.

I highly recommend listening to this podcast about IBM's role in Nazi Germany https://hbr.org/podcast/2019/11/lessons-from-ibm-in-nazi-ger...

TJ Watson (of IBM) had a similar "this is a business" outlook: “I’m an internationalist. I cooperate with all forms of government, regardless of whether I can subscribe to all of their principles or not.” IBM's machines were extremely important part of Nazi Germany's Holocaust efforts, and there is evidence that IBM was actively working with Nazi Germany after the invasion of Poland [1].

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/The-business-of-makin...

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#182

Post by Spivak »

lolinder wrote: post #173
momofuku wrote: post #164

I'd recommend folks read the last section of the announcement where these changes were announced [1]. The section is titled "Mission First", and I'm pretty sure the recent altercations at Google Cloud's offices over the past week [2] motivated much of the writing in this section. This seems like a stark change in how things happened at Google, and to put it explicitly in a blog was something I couldn't imagined to ha…

> We have a culture of vibrant, open discussion that enables us to create amazing products and turn great ideas into action. That's important to preserve. But ultimately we are a workplace and our policies and expectations are clear: this is a business, and not a place to act in a way that disrupts coworkers or makes them feel unsafe, to attempt to use the company as a personal platform, or to fight over disruptive i…

When the mission is make money within the existing institutional frameworks it's much easier to be apolitical and that seems to be the change here. But when your culture is explicitly "make the world better" you can't avoid getting mixed up in political issues.

How the devs felt about police for example likely affected the maps feature for reporting cops on the road. Same with Google Maps history at abortion clinics. The read on various news organizations definitely affected the choices for Google News partnerships. How you feel about government surveillance and "the deep state" likely affected how they built their messaging apps. Even down to the sign-up form where you're asked your name/sex. A conservative Google would have made very different decisions.

It's really hard to do anything non-trivial that doesn't end up brushing up against political issues de jour.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#183

Post by lolinder »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #179
lolinder wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have a culture of vibrant, open discussion that enables us to create amazing products and turn great ideas into action. That's important to preserve. But ultimately we are a workplace and our policies and expectations are clear: this is a business, and not a place to act in a way that disrupts coworkers or makes them feel unsafe, to attempt to use the company as a personal platform, or to fight over disruptive i…

I'm not so sure. You point to a vocal minority, I see something amiss for the company. If I were "corporate" I would be asking myself why it is a group of my employees faced arrest, job loss to make a statement about company policies. I would want to know if it suggests a bigger problem down the road for the company.

Google employs ~180k people. At that scale, even 50 employees involved in these protests would be 0.02%. That sure sounds like a very vocal minority to me.

> If I were "corporate" I would be asking myself why it is a group of my employees faced arrest, job loss to make a statement about company policies. I would want to know if it suggests a bigger problem down the road for the company.

I think that's exactly what corporate is doing. Corporate thought it through and came to the conclusion that this happened because Google created a culture where a certain type of employee thought that Google was the place to push their personal politics. They would like people who feel that strongly about a political issue to move on to another workplace and let their coworkers get on with their lives.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#184

Post by brookst »

londons_explore wrote: post #169
brookst wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true at all. Many products have very high demand in markets they’re not available.

Pixel phones have lots of geoblocked features. For example, they lose most of their 5G/VoLTE/VoWifi abilities if you use a sim from a phone network in an unsupported country, even though other models of phone don't have that issue. A bunch of other features are geoblocked in the EU, or geoblocked to the US and Canada only.

Sure, but my point is that 1) Pixel has low market share in markets it is available, and 2) there does not appear to be any clamoring for availability from the masses in other markets.

Pixel is a great product for tech enthusiasts. It may even be a good product for the mass market. But bemoaning the lack of sufficient distribution is totally missing the point.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#185

Post by eddd-ddde »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #150
eddd-ddde wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it's weird how this is a thing in the US. In what I believe is most of the world, people just use WhatsApp, no sms, no iMessage. Same is true for any demography as well. Maybe add some Instagram for the younger groups.

Younger groups mostly message on Snapchat not Instagram. Instagram is still mostly for pictures and "influencing".

Well at least where I grew up Snapchat never really caught on. Instagram kinda held its place.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#186

Post by bogwog »

dcgudeman wrote: post #13
bogwog wrote: post #8

I don't know anything involved in the process, but I hope this doesn't make it any harder for regulators to break them up when the day finally comes.

I hope ideas like "regulators break them up" never come true. I'll never understand why people crave the destruction of productive organizations. Android has been a stunning success. Valuable for consumers who enjoy the platform, profitable for the investors who bet on the platform and lucrative for the employees who work on the platform. The only people that seem to have a problem with Android are misguided ideologu…

> destruction of productive organizations.

I don't think your understanding of this is complete. A break up doesn't destroy anything; on the contrary, it creates value. Where once there was a single monopolist, there are now two (or three or twelve) organizations that can proceed independently of each other, and be much more focused on their core product.

For example, maybe Google can keep the play store, but not Android. Android would become an independent entity, and can develop in ways that benefit all Android stakeholders instead of just Google. Maybe then Android will finally be able to focus on competing with iOS in ways that Google would never dare to (since Google's relationship with Apple is a bit sus)

A breakup can also be good for investors, because illegal monopolies are inefficient. Android could potentially be much more profitable on its own than under Google's umbrella, and the play store could be more profitable if they're actually forced to compete. This can lead to innovations which increase revenue, and which never would've happened under Google.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#187

Post by rezonant »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #150
eddd-ddde wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it's weird how this is a thing in the US. In what I believe is most of the world, people just use WhatsApp, no sms, no iMessage. Same is true for any demography as well. Maybe add some Instagram for the younger groups.

Younger groups mostly message on Snapchat not Instagram. Instagram is still mostly for pictures and "influencing".

It's almost like everyone who comes in to say "people all just use Whatsapp" are going from anecdotal evidence, while the reality is Whatsapp, Snapchat, Instagram, Telegram, iMessage, SMS and Tiktok all have a share of that messaging pie-- these people just live in message app bubbles.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#188

Post by thegrim33 »

belligeront wrote: post #181
momofuku wrote: post #164

I'd recommend folks read the last section of the announcement where these changes were announced [1]. The section is titled "Mission First", and I'm pretty sure the recent altercations at Google Cloud's offices over the past week [2] motivated much of the writing in this section. This seems like a stark change in how things happened at Google, and to put it explicitly in a blog was something I couldn't imagined to ha…

I find the use of "this is a business" logic to dissuade political discussion about a company's own business practices to be extremely troubling. Yes, there can be a discussion about the proper way to have these conversations, but dismissing discussion of ethics with an attitude of "this is a business" has lead to some horrific outcomes throughout history. I highly recommend listening to this podcast about IBM's role…

Anyone notice the last few days tons of people bringing up the IBM/Holocaust connection? I've seen maybe half a dozen people in different threads bring it up. It almost feels coordinated, like those are the marching orders that were given out somewhere: "If this topic comes up, compare it to IBM and the holocaust, make these points, etc."

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#189

Post by karma_pharmer »

WillAdams wrote: post #180
karma_pharmer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ totally oblivious that he is trapped in the Broadcom Pi walled garden.

It would be nice to use some totally open firmware, but that's a big swing in terms of finance relative to the inexpensiveness of the rPi. That said, I believe I can live with: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/561/is-the-b... https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=340024 If someone would make a decent tablet with opensource underpinnings and Wacom EMR, I'd be glad to consider it.

Nevermind open firmware, just ask for an ecosystem that isn't completely controlled by one company named Broadcom.

Broadcom Pi.

It's called Broadcom Pi.

The fruit names are just a naked attempt at BigTech-laundering.

Re: Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI

#190

Post by WillAdams »

karma_pharmer wrote: post #189
WillAdams wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to use some totally open firmware, but that's a big swing in terms of finance relative to the inexpensiveness of the rPi. That said, I believe I can live with: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/561/is-the-b... https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=340024 If someone would make a decent tablet with opensource underpinnings and Wacom EMR, I'd be glad to consider it.

Nevermind open firmware, just ask for an ecosystem that isn't completely controlled by one company named Broadcom. Broadcom Pi. It's called Broadcom Pi. The fruit names are just a naked attempt at BigTech-laundering.

At least it's a company which will allow alternative OSs.

I'm still quite annoyed that I set aside and stopped using my Samsung Galaxy Book 12 because I couldn't figure out how to get it to boot something other than Windows.

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