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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#181

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

pembrook wrote: post #153
tromp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 4x more efficient than an electric heater, but not 4x more than a heat pump [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

It still takes less energy than heating given climate differentials, so any argument that air conditioning is “garish” and “wrong” needs to be applied to heating also (and anyone living in cold climates ie. Europeans, Americans, etc). I see the argument that air conditioning is somehow “wrong” or “unsophisticated” on HN all the time (usually from Europeans) and it’s one of the weirdest things. I see no explanation fo…

I'm not European; I come from a tropical island country that is also in love with air-conditioning. I dislike it and prefer natural cool air.

At home, it recycles stale, dry air. In urban settings, air-conditioners pump hotter air into the (already) sizzling outside. There are better implementations like district cooling with cold water, but this will require ripping out every single split-aircon unit from every single flat and replacing the ducting, the cooling units, and even the controls.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#182

Post by oliviabenson »

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cultural ideals through immigration. We don’t, though, because we only believe in human rights when it’s convenient.

You, as an individual, may do your best to contribute to the betterment of the world, but when talking about society vs. society, you’re glossing over far too many of our ills while ignoring the positives of the others.

Freedom of religion, individualism, capitalism, they aren’t “good” or “right” they’re just… different. The western individualism (seen most prominently in the U.S.) is not the majority culture, to many, even those who are just as “free” as any American, western cultural ideals are a step backward.

The way you perceive Islam is not the way it’s perceived by Muslims in Muslim majority countries, it is not an oppression put upon them by religious zealots, it’s a community that they participate in with a deep sense of pride and duty. For every Muslim in a Muslim-majority country who wants to break from their religion, there’s an unsuccessful American struggling to survive, desperate to break free from the lonely American pursuit of individual success.

You can hate public executions, flogging, discrimination based on gender and sexuality, and you should, I do, but don’t compare societies. We are not better, just different.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#183

Post by alephnerd »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #102

I think these projects mostly exist to funnel away / launder money, no one really thinks they will become reality. A multi-decade mega project is just a great way to divert large amounts of money without raising too much suspicion as there’s very little oversight of what’s really happening there.

Pretty much this. The companies subcontracted on Neom all had some amount of investment or ownership from either the royal family's fund or the sovereign fund.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#184

Post by The_Colonel »

SilverBirch wrote: post #86
slifin wrote: post #62

I'm surprised there isn't a bigger movement to intentionally boycott buying fuel from countries like this A lot of people in western countries indirectly pay for this

What would be the motivation for a boycott? That the Saudis spend their money on stupid vanity projects? In general I think this is one of the better uses of the cash - hell, a vast amount of the money spent on this is going to flow straight out to western companies who have the experience and expertise to actually deliver these complex infrastructure projects. Think of the alternatives, top 5 oil producing countries…

> Russia (13bb/day)

I wonder where do you have this number from?

According to this source, Russia never reached 11bb/day, current production is ~10bb: https://ycharts.com/indicators/russia_crude_oil_production

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#185

Post by keiferski »

dindobre wrote: post #180
keiferski wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UAE is well on its way to being the Switzerland of the Middle East and Indian Ocean. Your rhetoric sounds like it’s from 2003.

Will the world's criminals start storing their money there or did you mean something else with Switzerland of the Middle East?

> The U.S. is the top destination for stashing money illegally, according to a new report from a pro-tax advocacy group.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fact-coalition-report-us-money-...

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#186

Post by iSnow »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #140
reducesuffering wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“unexpected” That is not the word I or most of HN would have used… It’s a sad state of the world that this delusional lunatic is dictator of a $1T GDP country instead of everyone else that understands this is a stupid idea.

Yes, you can mix your dislike into your opinions, but they still stay your opinions. I'm interested in the technology, in the achievements that are possible, the problem solving and solutions found to do something of this scope. It's not about lunatics or the ** arabs dictators or killers ** say what you want. For example, the need for the special sand for the concrete. Their sand, which they have plenty of, is compl…

>he need for the special sand for the concrete. Their sand, which they have plenty of, is completely not suitable for this. It's too fine. So, how this will be solved?

As usual, either the sand gets bought from poorer countries or outright stolen and sold on the black market. You can't use desert sand for building.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#187

Post by trissylegs »

dindobre wrote: post #180
keiferski wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UAE is well on its way to being the Switzerland of the Middle East and Indian Ocean. Your rhetoric sounds like it’s from 2003.

Will the world's criminals start storing their money there or did you mean something else with Switzerland of the Middle East?

Start? Uae is a place known for storing and moving shady money. Very few extradition treatys.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#189

Post by Biganon »

zaphirplane wrote: post #163
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly you dislike gulf countries. I'll be frank: I have a deep mistrust of any culture present in the Arabian peninsula since about 632 CE.

Could it be racism?

Could it be that they execute honosexuals and treat women like second class citizens?

Nah, it must be racism.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#190

Post by nicolas_t »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #162
yreg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>about having a good city to live in I don't want to open a flame war, but I visited the city during the Expo and its a highway with a stripe of skyscrapers on each side and slums beyond. It's impossible to walk anywhere. (To be fair, the public transport is pretty good, as long as you live next to the highway.) When I read "a good city to live in" I imagine something like Vienna.

> It's impossible to walk anywhere. That is fair. I guess my comparison is San Diego (where I grew up) and Mexico, where I lived all of my adult life until moving to Dubai in 2022. The city is building a new metro line and improving on walkability as new neighborhoods of high population density pop up. It will still be very focused on shopping malls with AC because of the heat during the summers. Official records of…

I actually liked how walkable Mexico City is. It used to not be great but I feel that in recent times it's a much nicer city to live in than Dubai. Of course that's only based on living there for 6 months and being relatively wealthy (that said I'd argue Dubai is also only nice if you have the means).
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