I emailed them. I live I'm SF. This is the sake, solved, problem we have in the machine tool world (milling machines, lathes, etc). Similar to old keyboards, you can just buy and use a floppy emulator. They emailed me back, they said that the floppy thing makes a good headline but is really just the tip of the iceberg. It's really the whole system that's like this at every layer, it needs replacing they say.
the state-of-good-repair grift will continue until the morale improves! SelTrac is fine. and if it ever actually breaks (dubious) they can fall back to block signaling which comfortably handles more trains than muni is capable of running. the MBTA does just fine with it on the green line, and when the MBTA is making you look incompetent you've got to question where it all went wrong. this is the agency that brought y…
SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
181–190 of 252 posts
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have some evidence that government is not incompetent ?
It’s weird that people have this notion about government and only government. There are things governments do well and things they do badly. You could say the exact same thing about private business: businesses go bankrupt every day, wasting time and resources. But no one argues that the very concept of business is “incompetent”.
If a business fails to perform well, its customers can choose another provider, and the business will have to improve, or else it will fail.
If a government fails, what recourse do its "customers" have? Wait a few years for the next election and hope that the truth about the government's poor performance wins out over the propaganda, and hope that the citizens vote in competent, honest officials, who might gradually make improvements, despite having to work through non-elected officials who are difficult to replace for incompetency? How often does that happen? And what if the officials in question are merely appointed by those who are elected, and thereby insulated from accountability by several levels of indirection? What recourse do the "customers" have then? Can they choose another "rail provider"?
The private sector has natural consequences for failure and a natural incentive to excel and be efficient (certain circumstances, such as monopolies, notwithstanding). The public sector is heavily insulated from consequences for failure and inefficiency.
That doesn't mean that everything should be privatized. It means that we shouldn't be surprised when a service provided by the public sector fails to perform well or efficiently, and we should carefully consider what the government ought to be responsible for. Also, we should make it easier to hold government officials accountable and replace them for incompetence. If someone wants the security of a public sector job, they ought to be held to the highest standards.
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
also they need to be rated for the operating environment. you can't stick any random part from newegg in there. Tesla used non-automotive grade touchscreens in some cars and so they died early: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Automotive grade has very high requirements: > Grade 0: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +175C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +175C f…
I’ve noticed that my car’s touchscreen operates at a very high temperature at all times - almost hot enough to burn skin, which seems like a weird choice for something designed to be touched by skin.
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
The current engineering ecosystem is largely private, and it's poorly functioning, costing us way more money than just hiring engineers as public employees rather than paying a contracting firm to do initial and final design on each rail system segment. Just go look at the RFPs and responses each municipality has four expansion of their current system. It is all outsource to private industry, at great cost compared t…
I would claim that the problem is that they're doing it for government, which is what makes the chain of accountability lead to nowhere.
If you look at the entities that have actually managed to get stuff like this done (which is something most developed countries around the world manage), it's not private industries, it's governments - but governments that were enabled and trusted to build-up effective in-house teams for doing large projects.
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#185Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#186Well... I feel slightly better about Boston constantly pushing back being able to use our phones as tickets after seeing the timeline for the transition and how just that they are still doing this. What is it about public transit in the US that it is so... bad? Inadequate funding seems to be the easy one, but the MBTA (Boston) doesn't even handle the funds it has well. Yeah it needs more funding but there is also jus…
I think about this all the time every time I see an lcd screen in my local train stations. If people who designed them actually used transit, maybe they'd have the signs you can only see as you walk out of the station say something about the bus lines you'd transfer to, instead of when the train behind you that just departed from is set to arrive. At some stations the screens they installed don't display anything use…
When the Democratic National Convention came to Boston (2004), the subway got a lot of nice "which way do I go? what are these stairs? if not these, then where?" temporary orientation signage. It lingered afterward, with some becoming permanent signage, and others puzzlingly not. Such an event involves massive interdepartmental communication, tight timelines, altered incentives and constraints, and additional resources. Some of the altered communication channels are said to have persisted. I might be interesting to look at events where things are "shaken up", to better understand the steady-state tangle.
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#187My company provides new compute modules for another major global city's infrastructure that still relies on Intel CPU's from the early 80's. That is, we are building them brand new boards populated with chips that are over 40 years old. They haven't shown any interest in updating the system. It works, they can get service, and get "new" replacements for things that go bad. What they might not know though is that ther…
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#188Well... I feel slightly better about Boston constantly pushing back being able to use our phones as tickets after seeing the timeline for the transition and how just that they are still doing this. What is it about public transit in the US that it is so... bad? Inadequate funding seems to be the easy one, but the MBTA (Boston) doesn't even handle the funds it has well. Yeah it needs more funding but there is also jus…
It works because the companies own land and facilities around every station. Grocery stores, office buildings, shopping centers (stores at many stations), apartments, etc. This creates a virtuous cycle where the more riders the more people use their other services and visa-versa.
As for semi-competitive, at least in Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto there are enough lines that you often have a choice. For example Tokyo (area) to Yokohama there's JR, Keikyu, Tokyu, (3 different companies). They have slightly different routes so if you're closer to one you might take one or the other but they do advertise trying to get you ride their's over the other's. To Hanada there's Keikyu and the Tokyo Monorail (it's own company). To Narita there's the Narita Express (JR) and Keisei (a different company) as well as local lines from both. Same in Kyoto. You can go to Kyoto to Nara via JR or via Keihan. You can go Kyoto to Osaka via JR or Hanshin.
So, if one company offers easy pay methods and another doesn't it quickly gets the reputation and "a crappy old line" (who wants to live there, open an office there, etc...)
Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't call myself as particular on train maintenance...but consider that these trains are run more or less continuously. You thrash your car in seasonally tough conditions every morning, but these drive all day and most of the night. So, I'm not sure if the comparison is apt on these grounds. A cursory search suggests that quite a few manufacturers design for light rail car lifetimes of 25-30 years, not forty. T…
Transit vehicles purchased with federal funds are required to meet a minimum service life (see below). For the Muni Metro you're looking at a minimum expected life of 31 years. https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/2021-11/...
Looks like this has been the subject of some industry wandering in the last generation:
https://www.urban-transport-magazine.com/en/new-boom-in-the-...
Some were planned for 30-35 years, some for 25 to 30, some models have aged so gracefully they may be refurbished, yet others may have been engineered with roughly the correct obsolescence window in mind as engineering has advanced in the last generation, even in the dimensions of making some things simpler and more reliable (one of the billed advantages of some of the Siemens train mechanisms).