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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#181

Post by smileysteve »

jjav wrote: post #160
smileysteve wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American car brands traditionally did not last 100k miles until the Japanese brands flooded the American markets in the 1980s. There are performance automobiles, though, (Porsche, Nissan) that don't use hydraulic lifters in their "consumer" vehicles and require valve adjustment at 100k miles. 200k miles is actually a pretty big deal still, as it's about the lifetime of efficiency valve stem seals, crank bearings, and…

But you're mixing things which are regular maintenance with things which are a larger repair job. It almost feels like you're saying the mileage a car lasts is about how many miles it can last without maintenance ? Adjusting valves (on cars that need it) is a regular maintenance item. Cat converters, timing chains or belts are also maintenance items. Same for bushings, hoses, seals. None of these are a big deal. (Wel…

> Cat converters, timing chains or belts are also maintenance items. Same for bushings, hoses, seals. None of these are a big deal.

Each of those are major service items that, at 200k miles, often individually exceed the value of the depreciated automobile at shop times * shop rate. (which, unless it's a appreciating car is ~ traditionally $2000). So most people don't change them, which leads to cascading failure. (ie timing chain costs more than the value of the car, so eventually it stretches and the valves crash)

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#182

Post by lotsofpulp »

euroderf wrote: post #175
lotsofpulp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the 8% annual returns for old people’s pensions going to come from? Because the fertility rates of the last few decades surely is not going to result in growth like it did for previous generations.

Pension funds - the new all-purpose excuse for the blight that is financialization. A worthy successor to "Think of the children!"

Sure, replace with

“How to provide promised services and goods to a larger and larger non working population from a smaller and smaller working population” and/or the politics of managing this once the working population realizes they are not going to get the same, so why should they bother with providing it?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#183

Post by euroderf »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #182
euroderf wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pension funds - the new all-purpose excuse for the blight that is financialization. A worthy successor to "Think of the children!"

Sure, replace with “How to provide promised services and goods to a larger and larger non working population from a smaller and smaller working population” and/or the politics of managing this once the working population realizes they are not going to get the same, so why should they bother with providing it?

Pension funding in the US is something of a joke anyways. Is this the icing on the cake?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#184

Post by zelse »

dist-epoch wrote: post #104
alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

There is this person which repairs advanced electronics on youtube - motherboards, video cards, usb sticks, ... At $70 per hour it doesn't take long for repair to become more expensive than a new item.

Northridgefix? Tronicsfix? TheCod3r? (Louis Rossmann, of old?)

There's several of them, but it really depends on the value of the device more than the cost. A lot of what Northridgefix repairs is valuable for the data being recovered more than anything, where the value proposition isn't clear. That said, if someone's paid $2000 for a GPU, I can understand their willingness to pay $300 to get someone to painstakingly microsolder some components back on.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#185

Post by iio7 »

petra wrote: post #76
iio7 wrote: post #51

I have a friend who works in production. I cannot remember exactly what his education is, but it's a type of engineer. If you want something produced that you have invented, he can get it done. He has mentioned that they have software that can calculate the average lifespan of the finished product by entering the different components that goes into the product (like this piece has this amount of iron, this amount of…

That software sounds great! Can individuals or small organizations get access to that software ? How ?

As far as I have understood, it's not something you can simply buy. Only certain industries get access to buying it.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#186

Post by zelse »

cesarb wrote: post #127
j45 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People move into new homes. Most people don’t, or don’t know how to make their appliances last much longer. For example the minimum of maintenance for water tanks, or changing air filters more often when your home has AC.

> People move into new homes. Don't people bring their appliances with them when moving?

It varies by market a lot. In my part of Canada -- for example -- appliances are almost always included with a house or apartment purchase. Similarly, I only recently learned that in large parts of Canada, it's the norm to rent or lease your water-heater either from a third party or from a utility. Out here in BC, that's not really a thing AFAIK.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#187

Post by jjav »

smileysteve wrote: post #181
jjav wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're mixing things which are regular maintenance with things which are a larger repair job. It almost feels like you're saying the mileage a car lasts is about how many miles it can last without maintenance ? Adjusting valves (on cars that need it) is a regular maintenance item. Cat converters, timing chains or belts are also maintenance items. Same for bushings, hoses, seals. None of these are a big deal. (Wel…

> Cat converters, timing chains or belts are also maintenance items. Same for bushings, hoses, seals. None of these are a big deal. Each of those are major service items that, at 200k miles, often individually exceed the value of the depreciated automobile at shop times * shop rate. (which, unless it's a appreciating car is ~ traditionally $2000). So most people don't change them, which leads to cascading failure. (i…

Well you have a different take on "major service". If maintenance is not allowed, it is true that going past 200K gets difficult.

But if you're open to doing maintenance, the car will usually last a lot longer than that.

Timing belts are routine maintenance (60K on most cars I've had), takes me about an hour. A cat converter takes even less, four bolts (may vary by car of course).

Hoses are for the most part very easy, though occasionally there is a hose that's very inaccessible to changing it is more work. Still doable. Bushings depend on access but most I can think of have been easy. Seals vary, depending on location. Some are easy some are harder.

> exceed the value of the depreciated automobile

That's a strange criteria, why would you care?

Maintenance is not like remodeling a kitchen, you will never get your money back on resale from doing maintenance. Whether it is less, or more, than the market value of the car doesn't change anything.

All that matters is whether it is cheaper to do this maintenance on the car you own, or go buy a whole new car. In nearly every case it is cheaper to do the maintenance than to buy a new (or used) car, so makes more sense to do that.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#188

Post by lotsofpulp »

euroderf wrote: post #183
lotsofpulp wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, replace with “How to provide promised services and goods to a larger and larger non working population from a smaller and smaller working population” and/or the politics of managing this once the working population realizes they are not going to get the same, so why should they bother with providing it?

Pension funding in the US is something of a joke anyways. Is this the icing on the cake?

I don't know what you mean. Money is just a means of allocating goods and services, but by itself, it does not increase the supply of goods and services. So the pensions, the 401ks, the savings, and the cash really all are just trying to grab a portion of the nation and world's goods and services.

Which is why the returns ("financialization") are so important, higher returns means you get a higher portion of the goods and services. But since returns are just money, it does not mean the sum total of goods and services increases, just the proportion that you get is proportional to the return you get relative to others. And you can replace "you" in this statement with "x tribe" whether it be generational, political, racial, etc.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#189

Post by euroderf »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #188
euroderf wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pension funding in the US is something of a joke anyways. Is this the icing on the cake?

I don't know what you mean. Money is just a means of allocating goods and services, but by itself, it does not increase the supply of goods and services. So the pensions, the 401ks, the savings, and the cash really all are just trying to grab a portion of the nation and world's goods and services. Which is why the returns ("financialization") are so important, higher returns means you get a higher portion of the good…

"Financialization" means vampire capitalism.

Case in point: Greyhound. Asset stripping (real estate). Slow death of service.

Find a lever for extracting cash. Lean on it. Pry out cash til there's only a husk. Rinse. Repeat.

"Private equity" - bah humbug.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#190

Post by a_gnostic »

idiotsecant wrote: post #128
a_gnostic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks. In that case I prefer to build my own, so I know how to fix it myself. Some people and laws might take issue with that though.

There is no law that will prevent you from making a washing machine.

Not everyone wants to build their appliances from scratch, but many people might want to have my appliances. IP laws might prevent me from selling them…
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