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The case against caffeine

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Re: The case against caffeine

#181

Post by rubslopes »

ydant wrote: post #127
simonsarris wrote: post #103

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly. I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically…

> Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.

James Hoffmann made a great video about this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTSdlOdkn0

Re: The case against caffeine

#182

Post by time0ut »

I drink coffee all day most days starting from 6 or 7 AM until 6 or 7 PM depending on the day. I am able to fall asleep within a few minutes every night without issue and typically have deep vivid dreams. Waking up is a bit tough though. I tend to semi-snooze as I sip my first cup or two over a 30 minute period. That is, unless I have a hard time commitment, in which case I can force myself to move faster.

Rather than dismiss the article, it makes me wonder how much better my life would be without caffeine. I think I will try it out and see.

Interestingly, my reaction to alcohol is similar to the one described in the article. Any amount is likely to result in a bad night's sleep and mild to extreme anxiety the next day depending on what and how much I had.

Re: The case against caffeine

#183

Post by pc86 »

criddell wrote: post #120
pc86 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"High amounts" is a bit of an understatement, the study is talking about more than 6 cups of coffee daily, which is going to be in the 550-600mg range. Up to about 400mg a day is safe for adults[0]. 600mg is a lot of caffeine. For context, a Bang energy drink which is on the upper end of what you can get in a single drink, is 300mg. Most "energy drinks" are around 200mg less. I'm not sure anyone is surprised by the s…

Panera Bread was selling lemonade with 390 mg of caffeine in it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2023/12/12/panera-ch...

They're 20 ounces so nearly twice the size of an average drink. Even energy drinks which are typically bigger are usually 16 ounces (though sometimes 20). Looking at the website the highest-caffeine version has just under 160mg in 20oz.

Regardless, not sure what this has to do with the overall point, which is that you could consume multiple "high-caffeine" drinks and still be well under the amounts discussed in this study.

Re: The case against caffeine

#184

Post by xutopia »

I removed caffeine from my diet during covid. I found a 2% increase in sleep quality using rudimentary software (Sleep cycle) over a period of a year. What I did find was a reduction in anxiety as well.

That said someone close to me was doing the opposite during the pandemic and saw markedly better concentration thanks to caffeine.

I think it depends on people.

Re: The case against caffeine

#185

Post by rd »

simonsarris wrote: post #103

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

Simon, you also live one of the most idyllic, picturesque lives possible. If I lived in rural NH with my wife and kids, I too would love the coffee ritual.

Re: The case against caffeine

#186

Post by brainzap »

zeta0134 wrote: post #66

I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day. Eventually I realized I had sto…

try switching to cacao, it made me clamer and more focused

Re: The case against caffeine

#188

Post by rubicon33 »

I started drinking coffee as a freshman in college back in 2006. I forget exactly what the impetus to start was but I'm sure it had something to do with feeling generally tired and unmotivated, something I've struggled with my entire life.

At that time brewing a pot of coffee and drinking 2-3 cups was an incredible buzz. I'm not sure if my actual productivity was much higher (I think it was) but I certainly FELT a lot better.

Unfortunately around that time I developed a panic attack disorder. Ludicrous as it might sound to you now, I did not realize in the moment that it could have been related to coffee. I was 19 and barely in touch with my feelings and sense of self. I was essentially just bumping through life.

Fast forward 17 years later and I'm still drinking coffee. Over those 17 years I have waxed and waned in my quantities and when I would drink it. But suffice it to say that on average, I've probably consumed a Venti coffee every day for 17 years.

I did stop ONCE for 35 days about 7 years ago and didn't feel like I noticed any difference. Again though, I wasn't as aware of my mental state as I am now and it would have been easy for benefits to go unnoticed as I lost the buzz and energy that coffee brings.

I'm now interested in trying going coffee/caffeine free for a few reasons:

• Dreams. I almost never dream, and when I do, they're usually bad/anxious

• Sleep quality. I wake up and usually don't feel pumped or excited for the day. To be fair, I never have even as a kid. But I'd like to wake up feeling more "awake" and excited.

• Teeth. Noticed over the years my teeth have been slowly yellowing. If there's a time to intervene, it was probably 5 years ago but why not now?

• General mood / anxiety. I have a generally high anxiety state but "negative affect" mood disorder. Being anxious AND depressed is kind of a terrible world to live in. Basically don't have the motivation and energy to do much, and when I do anything tend to have a sort of frenetic energy that isn't very productive. This might just be my genetics but I have a theory that at the very least, coffee might be making some of the symptoms worse.

Re: The case against caffeine

#189

Post by loeg »

ydant wrote: post #127
simonsarris wrote: post #103

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly. I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically…

Decaf can taste ok but even really good decaf pales in comparison to caf, unfortunately. The process of getting the caffeine out is just inherently harmful to the flavor. I think moderation is the key for most people. Drink at most a moderate amount of coffee once in the morning; don't drink it throughout the day.

Re: The case against caffeine

#190

Post by loeg »

munchler wrote: post #180
riversflow wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it sound like addiction and not just enjoying something? I don’t get this sentiment.

Significant doses of a psychoactive drug on a regular basis.

I eat food several times a day and it often improves my mood and ability to focus. Is this psychoactive and/or addiction?
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