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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#181

Post by xyzelement »

silverquiet wrote: post #166
Aeolun wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get that somehow people are able to live in denial of the ultimate extinction of their being Is that truly any more likely than the non-extinction of our being? It seems like a safe assumption as a default, but…

I mean, I'm not trying to be bleak, but do you have any evidence that any of the religions out there can deliver on their promises? Like I'd be somewhat inclined to listen, but extraordinary claims and all that...

I am not the one you're asking but I was born an atheist and discovered religion as an adult, through intellect. Here's my answer from that background.

Ready? The answer is "we don't know." There may be a Gd, there may not be. There may be meaning, there may not be. You can't really know either way.

The answer is that it doesn't matter. The question is what kind of life do you want to live. One that lives as if there's meaning or one that lives as if there isn't? I know my answer. If I get to the end and turns out the meaning was just something I made for myself, and that there's nothing special about my children and my values other than my deep affinity for them... that'd still be a pretty great life.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#182

Post by dotnet00 »

xyzelement wrote: post #141

I was lucky that my wife convinced me to move close to her family (it would have never occurred to me.) Now we live just a few doors down from her brother who's got 4 kids, and we have 2. Watching the cousins intermingle is an amazing and unique experience. It's kinda sad but it's also obvious that people are majorly missing out. On having kids, on living close to family, on all of it. Ironically, this is evolution i…

That would only make sense if the issue was biological and not socioeconomic. No one's getting selected out when the issue isn't a biological predisposition to avoiding procreation.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#183

Post by latentcall »

macinjosh wrote: post #94
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

False, folks just choose to live in places they cannot afford. Plenty of small towns in the US dying for new blood. You could buy a block's worth of houses for what one in SF, Austin, Seattle, NYC, LA, etc. goes for. Remote work + starlink makes this possible.

Remote work is a luxury, most people in the workforce do not work remote. However yes if you work remote that is a possibility.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#184

Post by europeanNyan »

conductr wrote: post #176
maxdoop wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it selfish to not have kids? Selfishness implies another party; if the kid doesn’t even exist, what is selfish?

I'll speak as someone that waited until almost 40 to have kids and who feels, in hindsight, I was being completely selfish. I prioritized my career, my travel, my sleeping in, my social life, my leisure, etc. As soon as you become a parent, you realize you shorted yourself and your kid shared time on earth together. I also just don't have the energy or physical ability to play like I would have at a younger age. It's…

What if someone is not waiting on anything and just doesn't want to have kids out of any number of reasons? It's alright if you have regrets, but I don't see it as selfish if you never intended to have kids in the first place.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#185

Post by xyzelement »

dotnet00 wrote: post #182
xyzelement wrote: post #141

I was lucky that my wife convinced me to move close to her family (it would have never occurred to me.) Now we live just a few doors down from her brother who's got 4 kids, and we have 2. Watching the cousins intermingle is an amazing and unique experience. It's kinda sad but it's also obvious that people are majorly missing out. On having kids, on living close to family, on all of it. Ironically, this is evolution i…

That would only make sense if the issue was biological and not socioeconomic. No one's getting selected out when the issue isn't a biological predisposition to avoiding procreation.

I genuinely haven’t met anyone who deeply wanted children and then didn’t because of “socioeconomics”.

I met plenty of ppl who talk about the climate or cost of housing as the reason for other ppl but I never knew of anyone making a decision this way. You know someone?

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#186

Post by vundercind »

echelon wrote: post #167
lumost wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing this math frequently of late. I'm 35, have one child and of my high school class ... maybe 25% have children? there is certainly a bias from polling social media. But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children.

Kids aren't expensive. They're a distraction from dopamine and career advancement. My peers are all wealthy and they'd rather jet set than settle down. By all means they could raise families of two to four kids and still be incredibly comfortable. Vacation home comfortable. Instagram is the anti-child. Instagram and the endless feed of social media, internet, and things to do. Once you have children, the dopamine end…

> Kids aren't expensive. They're a distraction from dopamine and career advancement.

They really are.

You can pay for some of it by letting your and their quality of life suffer, instead of with money (cram 3 kids into the 2-bedroom you already own; don’t worry that the schools are bad and dangerous and that’s why the place was cheap; that kind of thing) but not all of it, and most people don’t find making those compromises acceptable either, if they have the means not to.

The main costs are lost income OR childcare; housing; and healthcare. The rest isn’t exactly cheap (man they eat a lot as they get older) but those are the worst bits, and they’re very expensive.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#187

Post by echelon »

zigman1 wrote: post #180
echelon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids aren't expensive. They're a distraction from dopamine and career advancement. My peers are all wealthy and they'd rather jet set than settle down. By all means they could raise families of two to four kids and still be incredibly comfortable. Vacation home comfortable. Instagram is the anti-child. Instagram and the endless feed of social media, internet, and things to do. Once you have children, the dopamine end…

You know what is also anti-child? Having parents that were completely unprepared to be parents. Stop with this dopamine epidemic nonsense excuse for everything that isn't working the way you want

[flagged]

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#188

Post by DharmaPolice »

dalyons wrote: post #78
beaned wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a more difficult undertaking. It was never easy, we've just been raised softly and do not value children the same way previous generations did. An outlier in many places, but not most. Only in the Western first world is this now normal.

Yes, nevermind the most expensive housing, education and healthcare ever, even in inflation adjusted terms. No it’s the children who are wrong. you might look at the birth rates in china or almost any other Asian country, and see how your vague rant holds up.

First generation immigrants (in Europe) have higher birth rates than second generation immigrants despite being poorer. It's not just about costs - it's about cultural expectations.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#189

Post by kalleboo »

aantix wrote: post #156
maxdoop wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it selfish to not have kids? Selfishness implies another party; if the kid doesn’t even exist, what is selfish?

There’s literally thousands of generations prior that have made someone’s life possible. And then they wash their hands of the matter and say “nope, I’m not giving anyone else a chance at life. I’ll enjoy mine but it ends here”. That is selfishness.

What I hear from millennials is "life is suffering, our future is doomed (global warming, mass extinction, insane politics, increasing loneliness), why would I force some kid to have to grow up in this shit world just for my own fulfillment?"

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#190

Post by em-bee »

Aeolun wrote: post #117
dalyons wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nevermind the most expensive housing, education and healthcare ever, even in inflation adjusted terms. No it’s the children who are wrong. you might look at the birth rates in china or almost any other Asian country, and see how your vague rant holds up.

I’m fairly certain this is just misaligned expectations. You can absolutely live in a 30sqm (or less) space with 5 children, raising them on plain rice, and send them to whatever public school you can get for free. And they’d very likely still have a better life than just 100 years ago. It’s just that nobody wants to do so because the standards are so much higher.

i agree with this. in a world where everyone (except a very few) has the same kind of life, it all just seems normal so you would not consider changing that. but as some people have less kids, more and more people learn from that, so the idea spreads (as does the education around how to avoid having kids).
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