Discussed at the time:
Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20556382 - July 2019 (186 comments)
Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
181–190 of 320 posts
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#182Just the framing of "browser extensions" is extremely problematic in the year 2024. Most browser extensions by weight are Google Chrome extensions. Google Chrome is unambiguously demonstrating that no API is safe in its quest to juice revenues. Anybody who builds extensions using Chrome's APIs should be very aware that they're quite possibly putting effort into something a juggernaut will stomp away without a second…
"I don't care to live in strategically lost situatios like this, so I think the conversation should be about Firefox extensions." Why would the conversation not be about editing the Firefox source code to add or remove "features" to meet one's personal needs. What is the point of "open source" if, to use the term from the submission title, the software is effectively un-"hackable". There is no small amount of "attack…
Oh I agree so much with you.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Uh. Linux users would like a word here. As a Linux user, I disagree. It's not quite the same. Yes, I could recompile my kernel if I wanted to. I can recompile most of userspace too. But it's a hassle, especially if you want to diverge from upstream, and maintain that divergence on a long-term basis. You can do some fun hacks with LD_PRELOAD et al, but it's nowhere near the degree of flexibility and ease of access o…
What has compiling the kernel to do with it, its about the fact that Linux let you control ever single aspect of your OS and tweak it to your liking. Its a pretty good example of what shows you how it is to control your PC, more so then browser extensions. Just look at what a pain in the ass it is to remove Edge from windows, even now the EU has mandated it, its still a 10+ step guide that requires some tool from Git…
Firefox is every bit as open source as Linux. You can control every aspect of it and tweak it to your liking and you are not limited to extensions.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#184Post author here! I wrote this post five years ago. Since then, my conviction in the value of customizable software has only grown, but I've also updated my thinking in a few ways: 1) AI AI is rapidly getting better at coding. Current AI is often bad at high-level architecture but is capable of making small local tweaks. Seems like a good fit for the kind of code you need to write a browser extension! I'm exploring t…
Executing untrusted code would be a lot safer if browsers and mobile OSes would make it easy to provide fake resources to the app/extension. Yes, you may read my phone contents, and as far as you know, it's the contents, the whole contents and nothing but the contents - it just happens to be a folder to me. An empty folder. It's a new phone you see. Yes here's my contact list. Sorry it's mostly empty, there's just th…
There is already a permission system?
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks! Here is the repo if you have any issues/suggestions: https://github.com/jlawrence6809/CSS-Selector-Helper-for-Chr...
How far did you have to deviate from the demo extension to make this? I've written themes for vscode and intellij but never done an actual extension because it's js/ts and I don't really enjoy writing those. I really wish they had a DSL for extensions to allow them to be more broadly written. Like, I feel like I have to basically learn js to learn to write a chrome extension and I'm a go/rust dev who will use it lite…
This extension is pretty unlike most of the examples the chrome docs provide because it extends the devtools which most extensions don't do. There are a lot of hidden gotchas you have to look out for when extending devtools and the api they provide just isn't as well thought out. However I actually made the first version of this extension when I was just starting out learning html/css/js and I think it was good project for that. I wouldn't worry about making something presentable for the webstore at first. Just build whatever you need with really bare bones UI and iterate if you forsee it being useful for other people. Maybe even start with a greasemonkey script.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely, but the short and long terms risk posed to most by installing random browser extensions willy-nilly is still almost certainly higher than that of instead opting for vetted desktop apps, especially if using PWAs in place of Electron apps where possible (which I do).
Desktop apps are no more vetted than Firefox extensions.
I’m talking about community vetting. It’s usually easier to find discussions on the internet where people have discussed and scrutinized desktop apps (e.g. “this app phones home”) than it is to find the same for most browser extensions (which are often only heard about after having been turned into malware).
The tooling is often better there too, e.g. one can keep a short leash on app network activity with Little Snitch and similar but I’m not aware of an equivalent for browser extensions.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly as much as I love Firefox this is an underrated concern. Firefox allows their extensions to be far more powerful than Chrome's, but that power means they are also far more dangerous. If Firefox were to really take off (like it should, imho), are we really ready for a web full of people being attacked by the worst spyware ever? Chrome, for all its faults, has ruined their extension framework at least in part…
I’d be really curious about in a system where browser extensions are limited to ~200 lines of code. No mechanism for distribution beyond typing text in. No concerns about permission. It would be interesting to see what people can do in an ecosystem where extensions can actually do anything but it is expected that people will actually read the code before running it.
How to encourage code golfing in real world usages?
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will leave this as a gallery of emails with offers to buy extension hoverzoom: https://github.com/extesy/hoverzoom/discussions/670 Sidenote: The "collaboration" offers come from time to time even to non-extensions projects, if they are reasonably widely used. E.g. simple tools (rather widely used suite of android apps recently sold).
Out of curiosity, those Russian messages are in Russian because you are Russian or an eastern solicitor simply doesn't give a F?
What Russian messages?
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#189Post author here! I wrote this post five years ago. Since then, my conviction in the value of customizable software has only grown, but I've also updated my thinking in a few ways: 1) AI AI is rapidly getting better at coding. Current AI is often bad at high-level architecture but is capable of making small local tweaks. Seems like a good fit for the kind of code you need to write a browser extension! I'm exploring t…
The security problem of open platforms is the key. Anything that is open enough to let someone who knows what they're doing customize the system to their liking, will also be abused by bad actors persuading people who don't know what they are doing to customize the system in ways that harm them. The fact I can write my own custom keyboards on Android is great! But the fact someone can convince your grandparents to in…
A great XKCD on the topic: https://xkcd.com/2044/
I do think that with every turn of that cycle we end up with better compromises. They’ll still be compromises, though.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software (2019)
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, those Russian messages are in Russian because you are Russian or an eastern solicitor simply doesn't give a F?
What Russian messages?
06/07/2016 and 10/30/2017, and 11/22/2018, I think there may be one or two more but I am too lazy.
cool idea to publish those. i remember when the pirate bay was publishing takedown notices in a special, public, category