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Write code for the web

mrmr.io

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Re: Write code for the web

#181

Post by Rohansi »

mvdtnz wrote: post #174
dtagames wrote: post #79

This author seems confused about something that he, himself explains. The reason that Apple doesn't care about developers is that they have created such a walled garden cult w/ users that developers are forced to produce products for their platform or they lose half their market -- or more. At my day job in mobile game development (for a small studio inside a large company), we have to fight Apple constantly -- not o…

I have been writing software professionally for 15 years and I have never written a single line of code for an Apple device, and I never would. Contributing to the Apple ecosystem is a choice, no one is forced to do it. Any developer who contributes to the Apple ecosystem is taking an active part in the situation.

Unfortunately for mobile games iOS tends to be where the majority of the money is.

Re: Write code for the web

#182

Post by wackget »

It was obvious to me that Apple doesn't care about developers the moment I learned that they charge a $99 per year fee to open a developer account.

I refuse to pay a company so that I can contribute value to their ecosystem.

Re: Write code for the web

#183

Post by pmontra »

bmitc wrote: post #29
coliveira wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was some years ago This is probably worse today, they're all the time throwing more roadblocks to avoid people to publish apps in their "ecosystem", except if you're a large US company that can easily handle the paperwork.

I have never understood how Apple gets away with it and even more than that gets a huge amount of love. Whereas, if Microsoft just looks at you wrong, pitchforks are out. I'm not cheerleading any company here, but it has been frustrating in my career where people absolutely refuse to touch or even consider anything Microsoft related but love their Apple computer. Apple is probably hundreds of times more agressive, mo…

> how Apple [...] gets a huge amount of love.

The wind is changing.

If somebody dared to write a comment on HN criticizing Apple in the 10s, downvotes rained down on that comment. HN's policy is to downvote to express disagreement, among the other things.

That's not been the case anymore since a few years. This very thread would have been nearly impossible 10 years ago, maybe 5 years ago too.

Re: Write code for the web

#184

Post by ajross »

idle_zealot wrote: post #105
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

> except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games I understand Drive working better as a native app; it needs to be able to provide a virtual filesystem to the OS and do background syncing and such. But why Uber? Uber has (or maybe had) a mobile site that works fine for requesting rides and basically everything the app can do. I don't see what value Uber being a native app adds for the user. The same goes for most mob…

> I understand Drive working better as a native app; it needs to be able to provide a virtual filesystem to the OS and do background syncing and such.

That's a circular dependency though. You want that stuff because you want to use Drive with native apps and not web apps. But Drive is a first class backend (actually even more featureful, frankly) to web apps too. Basically the native Drive client is for native/legacy interop, not a barrier to a PWA future.

Re: Write code for the web

#185

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

mnvrth wrote: post #8
dartharva wrote: post #5

Just here to praise the literary quality of the article. It is quite well-written and has a lovely flow, especially as tech-based blogs go.

Thank you for saying that! Such feedback is very encouraging, much appreciated :)

I think some of the processes you include nudge your presentation in a positive direction. ex's:

     Google is an example where I never grieved much because I understood the dynamics ... With Apple I didn’t understand the dynamics.

     The point where I disgustedly gave up was when I found out that while I was jumping all these kafkaesque hoops, instead you could just go to Apple's own web music player, type MusicKit.getInstance().developerToken in your browser console, and you’ll get an unrestricted root token for free!
Eventually, this is what getting-to-usable-tech looks like. I think it gets withheld from the narrative because

1) people wrongly heap damnation on wrong roads and

2) some folks who missed some particular wrong road will demean those who ran into it.

And there's this...

     This realisation has made me happier since I now know my place. I can like their products without wanting to develop for them.
...which neatly defuses some (pointless) stigma tied to helpful errors & failure. I think it makes healthy thinking more approachable.

Re: Write code for the web

#186

Post by mdaniel »

charlie0 wrote: post #63

The $100 developer fee is very annoying, but understand it's there to add a small barrier to entry. It makes people think twice about whether they really want to launch an app on the app store and therefore stops many users from publishing junk apps.

And yet, also impairs enterprising folks from also wanting to kick the tires on an idea. I don't mean established software engineers, I mean some teenager for whom $100 is an annoying enough sum to be a headache.

I would guess the long and capricious review cycle stops a lot of junk submissions, not the $100. If my mental model is correct any such junk app would easily make back the $100 in spammy ads on every click

Re: Write code for the web

#187

Post by asimpletune »

dtagames wrote: post #79

This author seems confused about something that he, himself explains. The reason that Apple doesn't care about developers is that they have created such a walled garden cult w/ users that developers are forced to produce products for their platform or they lose half their market -- or more. At my day job in mobile game development (for a small studio inside a large company), we have to fight Apple constantly -- not o…

Apple doesn't make developers do anything. Developers write apps for their platform because it is the one where consumers want to spend their money. They do this by being mean to developers, or, rather, not allowing developers to be mean to customers. It's the same way that apple leans hard on their suppliers but at the end of the day it has led to creating a healthy and wealthy ecosystem that those developers and suppliers still seem to contribute apps to.

Re: Write code for the web

#188

Post by skydhash »

LibrePenguin wrote: post #160
dtagames wrote: post #79

This author seems confused about something that he, himself explains. The reason that Apple doesn't care about developers is that they have created such a walled garden cult w/ users that developers are forced to produce products for their platform or they lose half their market -- or more. At my day job in mobile game development (for a small studio inside a large company), we have to fight Apple constantly -- not o…

[flagged]

I take more abuse from developers than Apple in the majority of cases. But I agree that some of their decisions is overreaching. But most developers have bad intentions especially with telemetry, privacy invading measures and dark patterns. Apple offers a safe place for those with simpler computing needs. Other ecosystems are worse for them.

Re: Write code for the web

#189

Post by mattgreenrocks »

65 wrote: post #127
dickersnoodle wrote: post #85

Go ahead and write "code for the web" but be prepared to have to choose among a bunch of different JS libraries and CSS design systems depending on who the CTO is for your organization and who has their ear; writing bare-metal HTML/CSS and minimal Javascript won't get you far with the C-suite and you'll be pulling your hair out trying to get things to play nicely with each other (or wind up digging through five or te…

Huh? If you don't want to write bare HTML/CSS/JS you can use one of the many frameworks that make writing web apps easier. Even if you hate React or Vue you can use Alpine. If you really hate Javascript you can use HTMX. The web has the best tooling out of any platform because it's the biggest platform. It also has the best documentation... because it's the biggest platform. I don't know what your point is, that web…

Web tooling is still not great.

It’s still too low-level. We shouldn’t be writing div over and over with different interacting class properties. Something like SvelteKit’s level of frontend/backend integration feels 5 years too late.

Ultimately it seems like the web ecosystem gets trapped in local maxima (“put JS in everything!”) and really seems to avoid actually creating useful, productivity-enhancing primitives. And that comes from loving the trinity of web tech so much you cannot imagine life without them.

Re: Write code for the web

#190

Post by julianeon »

dickersnoodle wrote: post #85

Go ahead and write "code for the web" but be prepared to have to choose among a bunch of different JS libraries and CSS design systems depending on who the CTO is for your organization and who has their ear; writing bare-metal HTML/CSS and minimal Javascript won't get you far with the C-suite and you'll be pulling your hair out trying to get things to play nicely with each other (or wind up digging through five or te…

I feel like a lot of these answers come from a circa-2010 understanding of JS, that haven't updated to the present.

By analogy, if we answered this way about mobile phones, it'd be like someone asking 'how should I do mobile development?' and someone else responding 'good luck, you have to pick between Windows phone and Blackberry and Palm and iPhone and ...'

In 2024, that's easy: you develop for iPhone and Android, and if you have to pick one, make it iPhone. Simple.

Similarly, for JS, you pick React Native. It's dominant and the alternatives are like infinitesimals - so small you can ignore them.

"What about..." Again, you're thinking of the options that lost. It's 2024, React Native won. So you just use React Native. It's not complicated.

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