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EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

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Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#181

Post by jacquesm »

selimthegrim wrote: post #82
jacquesm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that acquisition jumpstarted ASML's present day lead in that domain. But they were the only party in the whole world at the time that could take advantage of that tech. So it was good for everybody but that did mean that some strings got attached. But within NATO ASML is strategic, there is zero doubt about that.

Canon couldn't have?

No, they couldn't have. Canon makes nice stuff but they're nowhere near where ASML is.

It is however possible that Canon will at some point in the future be able to compete with ASML for all of its line-up, but Canon will have to make up for at least a decade of lag and for the industry that means that they're not relevant for the cutting edge. The amount of investment that they would need to make to be a serious threat to ASML is something they do not currently have in the works.

Industry watchers are skeptical about Canon's 'NIL' product, there are serious concerns about flaws in the process resulting in low yields. Maybe they'll be able to iron those out and then they may well become a contender. But it's an entirely different path than the one that ASML took and as those bets come a bit of a risky one (but with correspondingly high pay out if they get it to work). For now ASML is 90% of the market or so...

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#182

Post by sofixa »

tormeh wrote: post #180
sofixa wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I presume, they have less regulations in place Why would you presume that? Working back from wrong assumptions and biases is never a good idea.

It's still true. Or, the regulations are at least efficiently enforced in Sweden, unlike in most countries in the EU. Inefficient, corrupt, or arbitrary bureaucracies are surprisingly common.

Do you have any sources or proof of that or are you working back from biases?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#183

Post by jacquesm »

throwaway4good wrote: post #61
jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed they don't have a choice, I'm just not so sure about the positive outcome. Xi has built a house of cards and has too much of a cult of personality to create a stable environment.

Wrt. this I don't Xi matters a lot. There is consensus in the broader Chinese leadership that China needs to move up the value chain to the point where it has leadership, and potential self-sufficiency, in all key industries and at the same time stimulate internal demand.

Xi isn't going anywhere as long as he's got a pulse.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#184

Post by badcppdev »

DropPanda wrote: post #55
logifail wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats? "Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands. Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employer…

I live in a Scandinavian country. Our welfare system is structured such that people are expected to withdraw from the tax pool during the beginning and end of life, and contribute to the pool in between. Adult immigrants will benefit less from the system than locals over their lifetime, but may end up contributing as much. Adult immigrants with advanced degrees who come to work here for a few years and then move out…

For me it's the question about what's inside my house and what's outside on the street. I'd like to pay more tax at the cost of having less inside my house if I know that the street outside is free of rubbish and crime with a suburban library within working distance, etc, etc, etc.

I want my society to be nice because that's where I live. And it's not about the exact amount I add or withdraw from the communal tax pool.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#185

Post by lupusreal »

cgeier wrote: post #179
lupusreal wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens to be a very important component, that's how.

With that argument, Germany also has "full control" over those machines, as the optics are a "very important component" manufactured by Zeiss.

The German government could probably dictate export terms too then. What's your point, that this is unfair or something?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#186

Post by jacquesm »

hnbad wrote: post #119
logifail wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for flight readiness: that has nothing to do with how many children von der Leyen has Indeed not. Perhaps that's the reason the joke is funny? We could sanitise the joke to become "Germany's defence minister had more fingers than working fighter aircraft" I suppose. Would that be better? The real issue is VdL's history of failure, not the jokes about it.

No, the problem with the joke is that it doesn't just make fun of her, it also uses the fact that she is a woman and mother to make that joke. This plays into sexism and misogyny by implying that both of these things made her unfit for office by default. Note how the "sanitized" version using fingers instead of children doesn't really have any oomph to it - the sexism is not just window dressing, it's what makes the…

The fact this needs to be explained in such detail and then the OP still doesn't get it is baffling, but thank you for taking the trouble.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#187

Post by hardlianotion »

cgeier wrote: post #155
roenxi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML isn't guarding profound insights revealed by the gods requiring some sort of eternal liver pecking sacrifice to obtain. If the EU plays hardball to too great an extent, other countries will replicate the research. China will already have started their attempts. It isn't crazy to expect them to achieve success single handedly. If all of Asia starts mucking in the EU will get crushed. The EU does not have a track…

> The EU does not have a track record of staying ahead when they tangle with Asians for tech manufacturing supremacy. Depends on your definition of "tech", see e.g. Airbus.

I would say: "watch this space". There is a major aircraft manufacturing effort underway in China.

Parent is saying "don't be complacent".

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#188

Post by FirmwareBurner »

cassepipe wrote: post #120
postepowanieadm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare, education and retirement/social security included.

Plus, OP makes 6000 euros a month which really is not nothing .

6000 a month is huge by EU standards. Most of EU tech workers make way less than that. In Austria you can expect to take home about 3k a month. More is a rare outlier.

Outside of big-tech and FAANGS, pay in EU is super weak compared to US, like orders of magnitude.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#189

Post by rcbdev »

throw_pm23 wrote: post #126
chucke1992 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I don't see Europe producing their own silicon valley - EU has over-regulated and a fragmented market. Too many regulations lead to less enterprises, while fragmentation (Germany, France, etc. with their own regulations + language barriers) prevents companies from growing big in their home soil. Anecdotally, I feel like Sweden produces more startups that grow large worldwide. I presume, they have less regulation…

There is an easy way to (statistically) double the amount of successful startups in Europe by almost any metric: include Israel in the count.

I'd love to see the map they used in your geography class.
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