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Google search drops cache link from search results

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Re: Google search drops cache link from search results

#181

Post by Aerbil313 »

EGreg wrote: post #175
Aerbil313 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MaidSAFE afaict is just another IPFS which you can pay to get your data hosted on. HyperCore apparently got acquired and they are a company seeling solutions to businesses. Freenet 2023 is a FOSS project. I'm watching the matrix server for a while. Ian says they're launching the network in 2 weeks. It is a decentralized data store + runtime. So while the original Freenet was analogous to disk, Freenet 2023 is analogo…

MaidSAFE is far beyond either Freenet, Hypercore or IPFS. You should read their primer: https://primer.safenetwork.org/ It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable. They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption." They don't require a manual market for hosting (like IPFS) so people can't be intimidated into not hosting something. They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses…

From their website[1]:

>> You're likely to want to store data on the Network. Why? Because in return for a very small one-time payment, your data will then be stored forever, encrypted and accessible anywhere in the world and only by you—unless you choose to share it.

No different than IPFS.

>> Safe Network Tokens are the incentive mechanism that encourages individuals to provide the computing resources that the Network requires: storage, broadband, and CPU resources. ... Individuals who choose to supply the resources that the Network requires have the opportunity to be rewarded with Safe Network Tokens. This work ensures that the Network rewards those who provide it with valuable resources.

> They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption."

>> Next, let's talk encryption. Imagine you want to store a photo. That data is protected by a number of layers of encryption. Your photo starts by being broken into pieces which are then encrypted with the other parts of that same file. This 'Self-Encryption' happens before the data ever hits the Network. So, unless you choose to override it, none of your data touches the Network unless it is encrypted. And it’s designed so that you're the only one that ever holds the key.

If you hold the key, why bother encrypting the data with itself? TBH the entire thing reads like a new crypto.

> They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses after the first hop, so you can't discover the whole network and DDOS it / block it (which is not true of HyperCore, IPFS, etc.)

This also makes large parts of the network unreachable. Freenet achieves DDOS protection without this extreme measure[2]. It also allows development of all sorts of apps, it's not only for data storage.

1: https://safenetwork.tech/how-it-works/#where-is-data-stored

2: https://docs.freenet.org/examples/antiflood-tokens.html

Re: Google search drops cache link from search results

#182

Post by EGreg »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #181
EGreg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MaidSAFE is far beyond either Freenet, Hypercore or IPFS. You should read their primer: https://primer.safenetwork.org/ It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable. They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption." They don't require a manual market for hosting (like IPFS) so people can't be intimidated into not hosting something. They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses…

From their website[1]: >> You're likely to want to store data on the Network. Why? Because in return for a very small one-time payment, your data will then be stored forever, encrypted and accessible anywhere in the world and only by you—unless you choose to share it. No different than IPFS. >> Safe Network Tokens are the incentive mechanism that encourages individuals to provide the computing resources that the Netw…

> No different than IPFS.

You’re wrong. SAFE is autonomous, meaning no one has to agree to host your thing, and no one has to agree to pay you for hosting. You just spin up a node and earn coin. With IPFS there are manual deals, it’s not clear how to actually get paid for your file space, and they even opened up a new tier that pays 10x filecoin block rewards for hosting data they consider “important”, but the hosts for that data don’t charge any fees and despite being quite tech-savvy I couldn’t figure out how to start earning FileCoin for hosting, using their program at all! Do I just pin the IDs of data which is going to possibly earn me 10x block rewards, or do I need to advertise and get someone to whitelist me for a “deal”? (Did anyone here do it successfully?)

> This also makes large parts of the network unreachable. Freenet achieves DDOS protection without this extreme measure[2]. It also allows development of all sorts of apps, it's not only for data storage.

Not that kind of DDOS. If I know the IP addresses of all the nodes on the network, I can flood them with traffic via the DHT leaking their IP.

Freenet does antiflood tokens on the level of their protocol, but I can DDOS their ports and subnets without conforming to the protocol. SAFE doesn’t let you even send a message to the end-computer’s IP because there is NO ADDRESS on any protocol (including BGP) that would route it there. That makes the network harder to block.

Also, I fail to see how this makes parts of the network ureachable. It’s just that I need the neighbors of a node to agree to forward info to that node. Unless you mean eclipse attacks?

> If you hold the key, why bother?

That’s a very good question… this is the only patent their team ever made… the data is encrypted using its own contents instead of relying on an external key, to aid in things like deduplication as multiple people storr and encrypt the data, while each has their own key to access it: https://youtu.be/Jnvwv4z17b4?si=oHM96fBjCVGaGmSN

It’s not a “new crypto”. That video is 9 years old, and SAFE network started before Bitcoin! Just a bit after Bittorrent. They started in 2006 and are still working on it.

Re: Google search drops cache link from search results

#183

Post by southside38 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #178
EGreg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MaidSAFE is far beyond either Freenet, Hypercore or IPFS. You should read their primer: https://primer.safenetwork.org/ It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable. They encrypt every chunk of data, using "self-encryption." They don't require a manual market for hosting (like IPFS) so people can't be intimidated into not hosting something. They even have their own implementation of the DHT which removes IP addresses…

Can you link the proof for the actual claims?

Can you be more specific about which proofs you want to see?

Self-encryption patent? Or the functioning of the network in general?

Im new here so unsure of the policy on links, but please search for safenetform. Folks there will be delighted to answer your queries. This project is very different from most and it can take a little effort to grasp it. That effort is very much worth it.

Re: Google search drops cache link from search results

#184

Post by MichaelZuo »

southside38 wrote: post #183
MichaelZuo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link the proof for the actual claims?

Can you be more specific about which proofs you want to see? Self-encryption patent? Or the functioning of the network in general? Im new here so unsure of the policy on links, but please search for safenetform. Folks there will be delighted to answer your queries. This project is very different from most and it can take a little effort to grasp it. That effort is very much worth it.

> It's completely uncensorable and unstoppable.

This claim is what needs something to back it up. Otherwise it's hard to believe.

Re: Google search drops cache link from search results

#185

Post by angry_octet »

user_7832 wrote: post #141
angry_octet wrote: post #6

The cache: qualifier does still work for me, but I fear it too is deprecated. Another incredible Google blunder. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp...

Could you explain how you generated this link? Whenever I try the old cache: address I always get a 404. Thanks!

I went to the google search page and put in the URL with the cache: prefix. Eg "cache:http://archive.org/". This is now broken. Existing cache entries still exist, but unfortunately unless you know the URL it is inaccessible.
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