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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#181

Post by insane_dreamer »

ado__dev wrote: post #49
insane_dreamer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're not forced to use UE. you are forced to pay Epic 5% of sales (if your game makes more than $1 million), so pretty much like Apple (fees are lower of course)

But again, you have the choice of not using Epic. You can use Unity, or any other game engine, or even make your own if you're so inclined. With Apple, you don't have a choice if you want to be on iOS (which has close to 60% marketshare in the US). And I'm not arguing that apple needs to reduce the fee. They can charge whatever they want for their IAP system. But, other companies that have software/services that are…

releasing on Unity instead of Unreal is similar to releasing on Android instead of iOS

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#182

Post by ChrisArchitect »

[dupe] / Related:

Epic plans to contest Apple's 'bad-faith' compliance with ruling over App Store

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39033686

US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020365

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#183

Post by aurareturn »

readyplayernull wrote: post #164

The infamous 30% goes back to the time when there where no app stores and we, mainly game developers, had to publish our games thru publishers who used to take a large percent of income, 50% or higher, up to 70% I heard; in order for app stores to become competitive they set the fee to 30% which was an incredibly great deal for us! It seemed to me that the democratization of game publishing finally arrived at that po…

I'm on Apple's side for this one but weren't game publishers also funding the development, marketing, and distribution?

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#184

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

smoldesu wrote: post #119
nostromo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will risk an avalanche of downvotes and steel man Apple's argument. :) Have you ever gotten stuck with a monthly fee for something that's hard to cancel? It's a real pain the butt, no? But that never really happens on Apple devices, because Apple makes it incredibly easy to cancel subscriptions. You don't have to call anyone, you don't have to struggle with a bad website -- you just click cancel on your phone and i…

> One of the main reasons I buy things from Apple (on my device) and Amazon (if it's a physical good) You don't have a choice, from Apple. With Amazon you can buy your Purina and flip-flops off a third-party, but where else do you buy a calculator app for iPhone? The problem with this steelman is that giving third-parties more options should change nothing for you. If you're ideologically opposed to anyone that doesn…

There was a benefit to the consumer of the old no-sideloading world, specifically if it's possible to sideload an app then then companies can force you to do it.

"Hi, this is the company that owns your mortgage. You can now only pay through our app which you have to sideload because it's also a rootkit."

Why do consumers have the attitude "I will buy apple specifically to make you suffer through the apple app store approval process, and I don't give a shit if they take 30%?" The answer is 20 years of abominable behaviour by corporate app teams.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#186

Post by NetOpWibby »

cyberax wrote: post #151
NetOpWibby wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, Android's ecosystem has never been compelling because of Google. Even barring their unrelenting focus on gobbling more of your data, they can't even keep their services on. Their graveyard is massive. How many times has their default messages app changed? It's nuts. Being an Android developer seems like an exercise in frustration. I'm sure it happens on iOS to some degree but I've seen people online brag…

> Personally, Android's ecosystem has never been compelling because of Google. Even barring their unrelenting focus on gobbling more of your data, they can't even keep their services on. Their graveyard is massive. Who cares? If you're developing for Android, you don't need to care about Google killing off Stadia. > How many times has their default messages app changed? It's nuts. Being an Android developer seems lik…

> Again, who cares? I'm using the same messaging apps that I was using 10 years ago.

One of my best friends who was using Allo. Or Duo. Or Hangouts. Or Meet. Or whatever. He really loved one of those apps and it got removed/changed/or something.

My point was that as a developer, I'd want to ensure users like the platform they're on enough to buy my app. This same friend? He moved to some launcher and just uses Discord and Element now. As I understand it, using a launcher prevents you from using the Google Play Store, so you're not buying apps.

EDIT: See also: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/21/22538240/google-chat-allo...

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#187

Post by JeffSnazz »

Someone wrote: post #172
danbruc wrote: post #130

The economy primarily exists to benefit the consumers, not the producers. With that in mind, I should be able to run any operating system on an iPhone I bought. Apple should not be required to actively support this, put in extra work to document things or whatnot, but they should not be allowed to actively make things harder. If I got an iOS license, I should be able to install and run any application and be able to…

As a hacker, I want those, too, but I’m not 100% sure I want that as a developer or user. It also has disadvantages. Part of what Apple sell app developers is that piracy is hard on the App Store. It also benefits developers and users that tweaking apps to cheat in games is as good as impossible. A cloned or patched iOS that allowed users to install anything could change that by no longer checking app signatures.

TBH as an app developer myself I'd far prefer an option to publish and make transactions outside of Apple's purview than any kind of concern about piracy or meddling.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#189

Post by ericmay »

arrosenberg wrote: post #171
ericmay wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not subject to market forces? That doesn't make sense. If Apple's platform doesn't work for their profit margins they are free to sell their software elsewhere, including a plethora of phones from a diverse set of manufacturers. But they don't want to do that because Apple's platform makes them a fuck load of money. They just want more of it. How about this: Apple can charge Epic the same outrageous* 12% th…

> How is it not subject to market forces? That doesn't make sense. 65% of domestic App Store revenue is on iOS, and the Apple app store is the only distribution channel. What market forces affect Apple's pricing power on commissions? > Can you provide a legal document or explicit law that states "vertical integration is illegal"? No, because like all things, it's about how you use it. Per the FTC - Exclusive dealing…

> 65% of domestic App Store revenue is on iOS, and the Apple app store is the only distribution channel. What market forces affect Apple's pricing power on commissions?

That just proves that Apple provides a lot of value through its platform and that developers are hungry to develop for it despite the platform fees, it doesn't prove that Apple's App Store isn't "subject to market forces".

> No, because like all things, it's about how you use it. Per the FTC - Exclusive dealing and exclusive distribution arrangements may be anticompetitive, however, if they are used to raise rivals' costs, exclude (or foreclose) competition, or facilitate tacit collusion.

This broad definition would apply from any company ranging from Nintendo to Walmart to Tesla. It's not convincing. If you are going to make the claim that "vertical integration is illegal" you should provide factual evidence stating this instead of just your broad interpretation of "Per the FTC".

> Be mad at someone else.

Something something Apple tax, Junta, illegal something something.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#190

Post by addicted »

lykahb wrote: post #108

Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions. I do not want to take a side in this fight.

This isn’t about Apple vs Epic. This is about potentially illegal behavior by Apple that in this case negatively impacted Epic so they sued them.

So basically your stance is that you are ok with, or at the very least indifferent to, illegal behavior as long as it’s against people you don’t like.

That’s the basis of as lawless a society as one can get.

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