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Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

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Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#181

Post by wddkcs »

latchkey wrote: post #172
bsder wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we’re doing performance management right, we can often tell within 3 months or less of a sales hire, even during the holidays, whether they’re going to be successful or not. 1) This is complete hogwash and absolutely cements that I want nothing to do with Cloudflare. I've worked in enterprise sales. I've also worked with sales as engineering support. I've also been the senior technical rep that sales had to se…

I don't know about your specific quoted nit. I had a period in my life where I went on 100+ first dates, in a very short amount of time. I got to the point where I could tell within a few minutes if this person and I would click or not. I always finished the date though, so I also got a chance to make a bunch of friends too, which was awesome. Had I just got up and walked away, that wouldn't have been the kind and hu…

A churn and burn sales team cycle does not speak to a high bar. The companies I've worked with that have taken this approach have been the least thoughtful, and the least productive, usually relying on high pressure sales tactics that yes, most people are not cut out for.

Sales is a profession that anyone can do, because it's a ubiquitous life skill. If it's so easy for them to tell at three months the employee isn't working out, why can't they figure that out in three interviews? What critical info comes out in 90 days of work that can't be extracted during a 2 month long interview process? It's far more likely that they have no idea who will and won't turn out to be a good fit, and that these kinds of 'for cause' firings are meant to 'positively' motivate the remaining workforce, or are due to internal budgeting that is in no way related to the salesperson.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#182

Post by machomaster »

albert_e wrote: post #176
machomaster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about apologizing. How about taking responsibility. How about not making excuses. How about saying what practical steps are going to be done. Heck, how about telling that he personally reviewed her case and that her direct manager called her with details.

Apologizing to whom? What if he did all that and more but we the public doesn't need to know? Or they have some idea what needs to be fixed but it can neither be done within one week nor summarized in one paragraph. This is just 15 minutes of diversion in our lives -- we don't care either way.

Your message is a prime example of a wishful thinking delusion.

He chose to communicate amd.he chose what to write and what not to write.

But instead of analyzing the facts, you decide to base your analysis on what-if fantasies that you invented.

Sad.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#183

Post by latchkey »

wddkcs wrote: post #181
latchkey wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about your specific quoted nit. I had a period in my life where I went on 100+ first dates, in a very short amount of time. I got to the point where I could tell within a few minutes if this person and I would click or not. I always finished the date though, so I also got a chance to make a bunch of friends too, which was awesome. Had I just got up and walked away, that wouldn't have been the kind and hu…

A churn and burn sales team cycle does not speak to a high bar. The companies I've worked with that have taken this approach have been the least thoughtful, and the least productive, usually relying on high pressure sales tactics that yes, most people are not cut out for. Sales is a profession that anyone can do, because it's a ubiquitous life skill. If it's so easy for them to tell at three months the employee isn't…

https://twitter.com/scottastevenson/status/17462608153872140...

Zero sales in 4.5 months.

2% total was laid off.

This isn't really a sign of "churn and burn".

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#184

Post by FreakLegion »

pg_1234 wrote: post #177
FreakLegion wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People's names, roles in the company, and voices were revealed. If you Google "rosie cloudflare hr", the top result is a LinkedIn profile for Rosemary J. Fantozzi, who works in GTM HR. That profile is now hidden or deleted, and it's not hard to figure out why. I have no regard at all for corporate rules, but I do for privacy and privacy laws. Brittany may have broken the law by making the recording (Georgia is a one-…

If the recording was made in a one-party state it doesn't matter where the other parties were. You'd only be bound by other laws if the recording was done at the location governed by those laws.

You're wrong. The California Supreme Court, for example, has said so explicitly, for the general case. That leaves the question of this specific case, which nobody here is qualified to judge.

Either way, tech is in California, and she's definitely going to lose out on opportunities because of this. The good news for Brittany is that a bunch of companies will try to hire her right now purely for clout, so she'll be fine.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#185

Post by try_the_bass »

buffington wrote: post #174
try_the_bass wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint to this is: if the restaurant wants to stop serving food at 4:45 so the staff can leave at 5, they should close at 4:45 instead of 5. "Closing time" is external-facing, and customers shouldn't be expected to know that it actually means "4:45 so the staff can go home at 5". It's not a cultural thing, it's about clearly setting expectations. If you publicly state that closing time is 5, and you're not…

I think it's a valuable skill to develop a sensitivity towards how workers are treated by their employers and how your own actions, however small to you, can have a big impact on them. We all know by now that low paying jobs don't just pay poorly, but take everything they can from their employees. Closing at 5PM means clocking out, then locking the door at 5PM. If a customer came in at 4:45PM and you had to stop clea…

The thing about "cultural norms" (why not "norms?") is that expecting everyone to understand them is precisely what makes them "norms" in the first place.

It's "cultural norms" because it only extends to the scope of some population of people. These tend to break down when outsiders become involved, because one population's norms aren't always the same as another's.

This is why I have preference towards being explicit. If you don't want to make food after 4:30pm, put up a sign that says the kitchen closes at 4:30pm. Then it's explicit, and you don't have to rely on the implicit understanding of "cultural norms" in order to effectively communicate that you don't want to be making food later than 4:30pm.

It removes potential sources of ambiguity in favor of explicitly stating your preferences. This generally works better for all parties involved.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#186

Post by d1sxeyes »

paul7986 wrote: post #180
d1sxeyes wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would personally say to expect the kitchen to start finishing around 9:15pm. Unless it’s a super high traffic place or a place where they do online orders as well, I would avoid going as much as possible after 9:15pm, and I would not even bother after about 9:40pm

Then why even say your open 10 to 10 when you are only serving til 930pm (allow 30 minutes for worker clean up)? Just close at 930 and they are paid til 10pm. Anything else makes zero logical sense when a business explicitly states business hours are 10am to 10pm. Throughout my posts here I've noted 15 minutes before closing I'm empathetic to and even explicitly asked the worker at the sub shop is it too late which s…

To be fair a lot of places do publish a “kitchen closes at”, or at least mark it on the menu, so folks coming in after 9:30 know that they can have a drink but that’s it.

I think that’s the best solution to be honest, but it’s not done everywhere.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#187

Post by wddkcs »

latchkey wrote: post #183
wddkcs wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A churn and burn sales team cycle does not speak to a high bar. The companies I've worked with that have taken this approach have been the least thoughtful, and the least productive, usually relying on high pressure sales tactics that yes, most people are not cut out for. Sales is a profession that anyone can do, because it's a ubiquitous life skill. If it's so easy for them to tell at three months the employee isn't…

https://twitter.com/scottastevenson/status/17462608153872140... Zero sales in 4.5 months. 2% total was laid off. This isn't really a sign of "churn and burn".

3 months of which was ramp, another 2 weeks of which was holiday. She was given bad manager feedback, no chance to correct, and fired without proper explanation. To her, this was churn and burn, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other 40 people fired where similarly treated.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#188

Post by paul7986 »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #186
paul7986 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why even say your open 10 to 10 when you are only serving til 930pm (allow 30 minutes for worker clean up)? Just close at 930 and they are paid til 10pm. Anything else makes zero logical sense when a business explicitly states business hours are 10am to 10pm. Throughout my posts here I've noted 15 minutes before closing I'm empathetic to and even explicitly asked the worker at the sub shop is it too late which s…

To be fair a lot of places do publish a “kitchen closes at”, or at least mark it on the menu, so folks coming in after 9:30 know that they can have a drink but that’s it. I think that’s the best solution to be honest, but it’s not done everywhere.

Sure small restaurants such a sign I might have seen but not at a drive in window or the hours the fast food restaurant posts online.

Think we've been talking about two different types of places to eat :-)

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#189

Post by latchkey »

wddkcs wrote: post #187
latchkey wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/scottastevenson/status/17462608153872140... Zero sales in 4.5 months. 2% total was laid off. This isn't really a sign of "churn and burn".

3 months of which was ramp, another 2 weeks of which was holiday. She was given bad manager feedback, no chance to correct, and fired without proper explanation. To her, this was churn and burn, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other 40 people fired where similarly treated.

If my job is sales and I hadn't closed a single deal in 4 months, I'd have quit myself. I'd either take the blame upon myself or I would have figured that this company already saturated the market, or has a bad product that nobody wants. The easy route is blaming someone else.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#190

Post by wddkcs »

latchkey wrote: post #189
wddkcs wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 months of which was ramp, another 2 weeks of which was holiday. She was given bad manager feedback, no chance to correct, and fired without proper explanation. To her, this was churn and burn, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other 40 people fired where similarly treated.

If my job is sales and I hadn't closed a single deal in 4 months, I'd have quit myself. I'd either take the blame upon myself or I would have figured that this company already saturated the market, or has a bad product that nobody wants. The easy route is blaming someone else.

Do you not understand how ramp works? She would not be allowed to a sell during the first three months, or only with direct supervision. I'd be very surprised if you've ever worked in a sales first position, given this basic misunderstanding.
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