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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#181
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing where the company doesn't want to give any reasons for firing someone because that can be used in a lawsuit against them?

I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.

> It's extremely asymmetrical, too.

I’ve lived a very different culture than you in the U.S. - to the degree I’m surprised to see you express this sentiment.

In days of yore, people gave notice. But then a meme policy of “don’t poison the well” did the rounds. Roughly, the philosophy went: when someone is leaving they can only do harm; they are leaving, they have a convincing reason for leaving, and you don’t want that convincing reason to sour your other employees on you.

The result was that, when you gave notice, you were immediately dismissed on the spot.

In my career, I’ve seen a few people give very generous (months) notice. They were expecting to be _paid_ for the period of time they’d given notice for. But they found themselves terminated that day.

The result, in my circles, is that people often hide their intention to leave until the day they’re leaving. When they send their notice, they’ve already quit. Any time they get paid for is gravy, but they’re out the door.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in this TikTok admits to having closed zero sales. They're also one of the most junior people on the team (4.5 months). They would be among the first to go under union rules, too. Unions are often worse at prioritizing things like tenure over performance, if anything. But even under those rules she was one of the most junior people. There is basically no situation where a union would have prioritized this…

Stop sticking up for this garbage please. Have some empathy? • Third quarter revenue totaled $335.6 million, representing an increase of 32% year-over-year Do we need to feel sorry for cloudflare or something? She says on the call, or her feedback has been positive, so why should she expect a negative outcome like this? As a junior, she should be given the appropriate and valid feedback so she can learn and improve f…

Revenue is not the same as profits if you are going to bring up that point

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#184

This is why we need unions. Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes…

I have several friends who work in construction and trades and their opinion of unions is very negative. This is a blue state and blue city. A lot of HN loves unions but the blue collar opinion of them is negative, from what I’ve seen.

Different union structures for different types of careers. Some people don’t like paying taxes and dues.

Factory unions protect the collective uniformly because each person is interchangeable. This is a “raise the minimum” type environment. They make it hard to fire because they need to hold the line.

Some unions are structured to support highly skilled and differentiated labor. Like in Hollywood. They protect workers like camera-men but still allow skilled actors to be well paid and properly audition for roles.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#185
From reading other comments here, my opinion might be unpopular.

But I think she was extremely rude to those two people who were not required to be as empathetic as they were.

(I also don't like people who get angry at waiters for faults of the restaurant)

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of nonsense. People sacrifice a lot of personal time to ramp up in a job. This is why she is emotional. Then she was told she was doing well..by her manager. Now her investment is bogus and it sounds like she will not be compensated at all for it? I mean you're advocating she asks for compensation, when they tell her no? Then what? Not sure who you are but you're delusional if you think this is ok. "Go ge…

Not sure who I am either, but in no way did I say "this is ok". I'm saying there's nothing to be gained to prolonging the talk with two drones from HR. Maybe I'm missing something. What's your best case scenario for how the call goes? What is the biggest potential upside?

Companies should be legally required to provide feedback and data if they're firing someone based on "performance" reasons.

This isn't about the conversation, it's that your attitude means we should just let corporations off for doing bad / stupid things at scale. This is not going to result in a good society.

This company has seen 30%+ year on year growth, there is no need to treat people like this, especially when they're doing so well.

This type of thing can be very violating, do you not understand that?

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably these Cloudflare HR employees do have the data for why this person was laid off, and they might even have it in front of them, but yeah legally they can't give them any more specifics. As far as I'm aware, evidence of good performance could be used to strengthen their case to collect unemployment (if Cloudflare tries to fight Brittany's unemployment claim); it could also be used as evidence in a discrimina…

Why does the company have a say in whether or not a former employee can collect unemployment?

Typically [in the US] you can't collect unemployment if you're terminated with cause - something like not showing up to work or not doing your job. Given they terminated for poor performance, this is typically not a scenario where the employee could collect unemployment. In Georgia, for example, she should be given DOL-800 which indicates the reason and explains what her unemployment options look like. If she has evidence this is more of a layoff or that her performance was not bad, she could provide that evidence to her state's Department of Labor to prove that Cloudflare is lying about the reason for termination and thus she deserves to receive it.

However, she likely received some amount of severance, which would mean she would get less or no unemployment income, depending on how much it is in relation to what she would've received from filing for unemployment.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#188
The thing is... Those two people on the call, I mean... They are just doing their job as well. Don't understand what is the point to actually argue with them. Nothing they can do or change.

And yes, Brittany is going to be internet famous for a day. But a lot of people going to watch this video and recognize her on the next loop of interviews. Just not the best solution for this situation.

It is just sad to see. And I am sorry for anyone who is going through those hard times.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, she did well by frustrating the process. Next time they’ll think twice before gaslighting and humiliating an employee. Telling her she was getting fired due to her own performance is just that. In my books she did well, hope she starts a gig on her own to never have to deal with NPCs such as those two. They feed on people’s misery.

> In my books she did well, You don't have the details and she had 0 sales. You're basing yourself on a TikTok video, with someone who knew it was being recorded and acted accordingly. Eg. Cloudflare 's products are very technical and perhaps she has too little general IT knowledge to be able to close a deal ( she mentioned to have 3 chances and closed 0 )

That's the whole point right? They are firing someone with 0 details.

If you can't tell someone why you are firing them you are just incompetent and those HR people should be ashamed of themselves.

You should be able to say something like: Look, we have a rule that you have to make a sale in your first three months. You failed that. Also from what we've seen our feeling is that you are not going to make it in 4 or 5 months so we think extending that period is not going to help.

I also definitely don't understand how you can fire someone without having their direct manager in the call.

There is just a lot of sugar coating and hollow words without any meaningful information.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#190
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I was not aware there are state level laws for this, she appears to be from Georgia. Not sure how this would work with inter-state conversations. Georgia is not on the list: California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

> Not sure how this would work with inter-state conversations. My guess would be either that the state where the call “originated” would control, or the state in play with the most restrictive call recording laws.

So the correct answer isn't so clear but maybe she did break the law (maybe she didn't) if HR called from one of those 11 states. Cloudflare is based in San Fran but per their LinkedIn many employees are spread out.

Overall I'm being downvoted for my post which I've learned is wrong. I've also learned the correct answer is very nuanced and those downvoting saying my post is 100 percent incorrect well we just don't know unless someone does a deep legal dive. As well we know where the originating calls came from and we can assume properly she was in Georgia. Again very nuanced but an interesting discussion.

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