Earlier quoted context omitted.
> having something in my “file” about being I would check your assumption here. What is this "my file" you imagine exists. What is it? Who is the custodian? Is there just one copy, if not, how are they kept in sync, etc.?
It’s in quotes because it’s not a literal file, per se . But HR will keep records of termination reasons. So, if a prospective employer contacts Cloudflare and asks why she was terminated and Cloudflare says “performance” when that’s not actually the case, it’s detrimental to the potential employer’s perception of her.
Cloudflare lays off new hires
181–190 of 276 posts
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#182Plenty of these on LI today unfortunately. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/skoroleva_opentowork-techsale... https://twitter.com/BowTiedPassport/status/17451497589921956...
Yikes on that second link, I seriously hope she told them she was recording the call or she may run into some two-party consent issues.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> She did cut them off when they were giving out corporate speak. She cut them off after 21 seconds and then went into a heated complaint, including calling what they're doing "bullshit" > She asked for details, and they didn't have any details for her. Once someone becomes this heated, the only real option is to reschedule a followup call after the person has had time to cool down. Nothing good would have come from…
A few things. First, if they are doing layoffs, shouldn't they expect people to be pissed off, and be prepared to handle that? I don't think the call was heated at all, but maybe it's a cultural difference. It could be that American corporate drones in general are less tolerant of conflict. Second, why not include someone she knew on the call, instead of two people she had never met before? It's a total power move. I…
Second - I'm not sure I'd call the choice of call participants a "power move", just standard American hyper-legally-conscious practice. Surprise layoffs or pip firings are usually done with an HRBP you've probably never met before leading the call. Sometimes the manager may be there but frequently they won't talk much or at all.
Third - Not necessarily. The others may have been struggling to close sales as well. The only things I know about this whole thing come from reading the text in the OP and watching the tiktok video so I could easily be missing it, but is there any evidence that this is anything other than letting go of sales people who aren't performing? I think this is extremely common in sales, it's pretty cutthroat. You close deals or you don't, and companies are always asking "what have you done for me lately?"
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s in quotes because it’s not a literal file, per se . But HR will keep records of termination reasons. So, if a prospective employer contacts Cloudflare and asks why she was terminated and Cloudflare says “performance” when that’s not actually the case, it’s detrimental to the potential employer’s perception of her.
Never heard that a company tell the reason got dismissed. they will confirm they worked there. saying performance or similar things can cause legal issues. At least in Europe. in some countries even code sentences are not allowed.
This works around potential libel issues associated with giving specific reasons.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
The harder, riskier, and more expensive you make it to hire new people, the more companies will play it safe by avoiding junior hires and putting more headcount in less restrictive countries. A few jobs ago our mobile dev team was in an EU country with significant protections against firing people. Their interview process involved a take-home problem that would have easily taken 80-100 hours, more with polish. I coul…
That doesn’t really pass the smell test. Countries with employment protections still have probation periods during which the company can fire you without hassle. For example in Germany 6 months is a common duration. https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/probezeit If you cannot evaluate an employee’s worth in 6 months that’s pretty problematic.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#186I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…
I think it complicates matters with her being in sales. It’s a much more cutthroat area in companies the size of Cloudflare from what I’ve seen. If you don’t perform you get cut loose really fast. I have a family member in tech sales and it blows my mind how easy it is to get fired.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume this is done to dodge WARN Act requirements. I can't think of any other reasons that make any kind of sense. I mean, honestly this doesn't make sense either, it's just all I've got.
Doesn't the WARN act just come down to paying severance that covers at least the notice period? Sometimes I feel like comments here are premised on WARN being a magic spell that prevents arbitrary termination.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't the WARN act just come down to paying severance that covers at least the notice period? Sometimes I feel like comments here are premised on WARN being a magic spell that prevents arbitrary termination.
Isn’t the WARN act just for larger layoffs (50 or 75+)?
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah I’m pretty comfortable blaming a company for jerking around a new hire, thereby putting their financial status and healthcare needs at risk. That’s shit behavior and deserves to be called out.
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Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
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The economy objectively only works that way because it’s designed to work that way, designed by people, people that should be held to their unethical behavior. The economy isn’t some mythical law of nature. It’s entirely a man made thing and I have every right to be disappointed in socially-made-up things called “corporations”!