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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#181

Post by jekrb »

lxgr wrote: post #143
treyd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UX with hardware wallets (which you can get for like $60) is pretty decent these days and it eliminates a lot of stress in the workflows you typically use. There's still a huge room for improvement with seedphrase backup and "social recovery", but it's easier now than it's been in the past.

How does the average person back these up in a secure, yet durable way that lasts decades and can easily be discovered by (and only by) their ultimate heirs?

I think everyone will have different behavior sec for their funds, with the options now ranging from simply committing a 12 or 24 word seed phrase to memory and buying ETF shares.

There is shamir secret splitting, multisig, MPC, secure enclaves with biometerics, etc...

There will be apps like Fuse wallet: https://www.fusewallet.com/

There will be phones like Saga: https://solanamobile.com/hardware

I think how one handles their wallets will be much like how people make their espressos. Some will just stick k-cup in a machine and hit a button, others will become full-blown coffee enthusiasts that carefully measure their beans, de-static their grinds, and extract for the exact right amount of time.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#182

Post by [deleted] »

miohtama wrote: post #135
SilverBirch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Bitcoin ETF is literally the antithesis of the crypto project. It’s a centralised, highly regulated trad-fi product. Also, no one is going to end up accidentally investing in crypto, these ETFs are going to be super niche products.

Not by accidentally, but many index funds will, and then people will indirectly through their pensions. Most of funds by AUM are now passive index funds.

[deleted]

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#183

Post by transcriptase »

lxgr wrote: post #143
treyd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UX with hardware wallets (which you can get for like $60) is pretty decent these days and it eliminates a lot of stress in the workflows you typically use. There's still a huge room for improvement with seedphrase backup and "social recovery", but it's easier now than it's been in the past.

How does the average person back these up in a secure, yet durable way that lasts decades and can easily be discovered by (and only by) their ultimate heirs?

Same as anything else really: A sheet of paper and a safety deposit box.

You die, your heir or executor takes the appropriate paperwork to the bank, and then they get the contents of the box.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#184

Post by treyd »

lxgr wrote: post #143
treyd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UX with hardware wallets (which you can get for like $60) is pretty decent these days and it eliminates a lot of stress in the workflows you typically use. There's still a huge room for improvement with seedphrase backup and "social recovery", but it's easier now than it's been in the past.

How does the average person back these up in a secure, yet durable way that lasts decades and can easily be discovered by (and only by) their ultimate heirs?

That's what the "social recovery" ideas are for. It's a framework for doing key management across multiple trusted parties under controlled conditions in the hypothetical case your primary keys are inaccessible. You could have your executor hold a key, for example.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#185

Post by lxgr »

jekrb wrote: post #181
lxgr wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the average person back these up in a secure, yet durable way that lasts decades and can easily be discovered by (and only by) their ultimate heirs?

I think everyone will have different behavior sec for their funds, with the options now ranging from simply committing a 12 or 24 word seed phrase to memory and buying ETF shares. There is shamir secret splitting, multisig, MPC, secure enclaves with biometerics, etc... There will be apps like Fuse wallet: https://www.fusewallet.com/ There will be phones like Saga: https://solanamobile.com/hardware I think how one han…

> simply committing a 12 or 24 word seed phrase to memory

That's absolutely out of the question for almost any human being, especially given the timeframes involved.

> There will be phones like Saga [...] There will be apps like Fuse wallet: [...]

Again, we're talking about a timeframe of decades. How many of these will even still boot up after that amount of time? None of these seem safe to just throw in a bank safe deposit box.

> make their espressos. Some will just stick k-cup in a machine and hit a button

I'm really not a coffee connoisseur by any meaning of the word, but even I know that what comes out of a k-cup machine is brewed coffee, not espresso.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#186

Post by panarky »

jekrb wrote: post #159
hackernudes wrote: post #144

The only thing I am concerned about is "paper bitcoin" and rehypothecation. Is there anything published about how ETF entities might prove they have custody of the amount of bitcoin they claim (in other words, proof of reserves)?

This should actually be quicker and easier to prove than something like gold ETFs (e.g. SPDR) or other commodity ETFs. The custody provider (e.g. Coinbase is the custody provider for most of these ETFs) should be able to simply show wallet addresses for all the Bitcoin they hold.

>>> finally reaches its ultimate form of a centralised list maintained by the DTC

> simply show wallet addresses for all the Bitcoin they hold

DTC's database is not where the Bitcoin is. It's still on Bitcoin's decentralized blockchain, just like always. That's the ultimate authority no matter how many centralized forms you stack on top of it.

At least with this structure, there are separate, distinct entities for custody, market making, transfer agent, etc. to reduce the incentives to self-deal and print fake paper securities and commodities.

So a huge improvement on the current state of affairs, where FTX or Binance handles all of these functions, with no segregation.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#188

Post by ESTheComposer »

dgreensp wrote: post #173
ESTheComposer wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok and from my anecdotal experience the opposite is true, so I guess we're at a crossroads here. Either way doesn't have bearing on how HN views crypto

Well the claim is that if HN isn’t bullish on crypto in 2024 it must be inside a strange “negativity bubble.”

There's a difference between being bearish and being fully anti crypto and just spreading conjecture. Being bearish is very normal, being rabidly anti crypto on every crypto thread on HN like a couple folks who are in this very thread is being in a bubble.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#189

Post by lxgr »

transcriptase wrote: post #183
lxgr wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the average person back these up in a secure, yet durable way that lasts decades and can easily be discovered by (and only by) their ultimate heirs?

Same as anything else really: A sheet of paper and a safety deposit box. You die, your heir or executor takes the appropriate paperwork to the bank, and then they get the contents of the box.

How many people even have a safety deposit box?

Many banks don't offer them anymore, and in some countries they have a disturbing tendency of getting robbed, with absolutely no recourse for the depositors (since contents are usually unverified and uninsured).

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#190

Post by jekrb »

treyd wrote: post #68
reisse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already wealthy? I don't think you know the scene well. HFT probably pulled more physics and math grads out of poverty than any other field.

It's also pulled those grads away from more typical jobs they'd have building useful things and actually producing new real-world value.

What if the work these folks do to increase market efficiency does produce real-world value, as slower verifiable economic information would increase periods of uncertainty and price slippages?

Or the HFT engineers producing research and products that speed up general compute, such as accelerating SHA and ED25519 signature verification, so that their trading shops get information faster?

I wonder if there are actually a lot of third-order, downstream effects that society gets by paying engineers to just make computers and telecommunications faster.

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