Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…
'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#182Slightly related, I wonder what opportunity cost the Israeli tech sector will incur from this conflict. Instead of developing their startups, lots of young people are busy with warfare at the moment.
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#183Israel has also been imposing apartheid on Palestinians for years, a fact that high-ranking officials themselves admit [1][2], and which human rights reports confirm[3]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposin... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex... [3] https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...
Per Wikipedia, Apartheid is a "system of institutionalised racial segregation", and Israel's citizens include many Arab Muslims and even Palestinians, all of whom have equal rights. Israel's declaration of independence explicitly supported "equality...without distinction of race, creed, or sex" [2]. Arabs are 20% of the Israeli population and yet they are 40% of doctors [3].
The West bank and Gaza are basically separate countries with their own governments. The extremist Israeli settlers should leave those areas since they are not part of Israel, but I am just stating disagreement with the "apartheid" label. The concept of systemic Apartheid is unrelated to a few bad apples occupying and illegally settling in areas outside their national borders.
[1] https://thesouthafrican.net/2023/09/28/israel-is-not-an-apar...
[2] https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-israels-proclamatio...
[3] https://www.israel21c.org/the-small-israeli-village-where-ev...
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems that in Israel there are (very small) quotas for non jewish people to be admitted at university. I've met muslim israeli who have learnt italian to go to study medicine in italy (where there is a notoriously extremely difficult entrance exam) because all of this was easier than going to a local university.
Source in that? Here’s a source countering https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-arab-students-in-isr...
Me, I have personally met people doing it, while being a student myself.
From your link: > In postgraduate programs, the proportion of Arab students rose 60% from 3.9% to 6.3%.
If you have 0 students and then you get one, it increases ∞%, but sometimes looking at the % in the title, which is just a Δ of the actual % doesn't tell the whole story.
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#185Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…
1: Define all males killed or captured as combatants and thus valid military target.
2: Either redefine torture or outsource it.
3: Define every military operation as critical to counter terrorism and part of self defense.
The media response back then was that this is just normal part of the horrors of war, and that this kind of reporting "don't tell us much that we didn't already know in broad outline".
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#186Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…
Nations at war defend themselves by degrading the military might and desire to wage war of the enemy state. I find Israel's actions to be overly callous towards civilian death, but it's important to keep in mind that civilian death was inevitable once the government of Gaza decided to invade Israel and intentionally target civilians.
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#187Im glad to see the community engage with this -- there couldnt be a more significant current event happening right now and its jarring that it would be so silent. Edit: And why is it relevant here? At a minimum coworkers are suffering silently through it. The emotional damage just for internet bystanders is staggering.
In my experience, the "benefit of the doubt" has been lost in relation to this subject. I no longer believe it is possible to have any thread about this remain civil. It's tragic and a tragic subject, although I dispute the "there couldn't be a more significant current event" - lots of events are equally (or more) significant and relevant. I hope to be proven wrong, but I have doubts.
I bet almost no one in this thread is able to juggle three balls either, even though learning how to do so doesn't take all that much practice. But it does take some practice.
Should we be surprised when people are unable to do something that requires practice and education, when they lack both?
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience, the "benefit of the doubt" has been lost in relation to this subject. I no longer believe it is possible to have any thread about this remain civil. It's tragic and a tragic subject, although I dispute the "there couldn't be a more significant current event" - lots of events are equally (or more) significant and relevant. I hope to be proven wrong, but I have doubts.
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And that's even taking the UNWRA/ Gaza Health numbers at face value, which somehow indicate zero combatants killed in airstrikes.
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#189[flagged]
Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture
#190Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.