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EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

reuters.com

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Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to aggregate personal information of large numbers of people is a form of political power. Facebook can, if it so wishes, provide a list of all gay people in an area; all supporters of gaza or of israel; all people who have recently commented on an article about drugs. The very ability to provide that list previously required an expensive secret police; today it does not. This is an extremely dangerous ab…

Yes, as can Apple, Google, every cable company, every telecom, the credit card companies, Grindr, health clinics

Hence, the GDPR's making a distinction between data essential for operation of the basic service vs. more broad collection.

I take your point that some level of this power exists, necessarily, within internet-based companies with online users.

But I think there's a big difference between, say, signing up to Grindr where you submit a basic form with limited information (and presumably) can retain some minimal anonymity in how you use the app --- and a system whereby the history of all your actions across your online life (banking, social media, dating apps, etc.) is collectable by a centralised agency.

With laws like GDPR, broad datasets have become a liability for companies like telecoms, banks, etc. They don't want it. Accidentally forming 'rich user profiles' based on non-annoymous data is a legal liability.

This is exactly the incentive structure needed. Rather than have companies with an existential profit motive to build mass surveillance systems.

As far as whether a relational database that takes user data from a form is different to a whole system of streaming live event databases with massive streams of user monitoring across websites --- well, I think it wouldnt be hard to write a law against the latter.

These are political, moral, legal and technical distinctions that can be drawn.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#182
post #164

Ok, my contrarian hot take (for HN at least). The real entities we need to be afraid of in regards to privacy are governments & politicians, not companies & entrepreneurs. The worst thing a company can do is try to sell you more soap. The government on the other hand can literally ruin your life (or even end it in some countries). The EU is doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone distracted by pointing the finger a…

This very American point of view, for some reason the Americans believe that politicians are some other kind of breed of people coming from somewhere else and they don't have control over them. The more European point of view is that companies are run by greedy people on who we have no control and we need the government to keep those in check. We have control over the governments and it's O.K. to take them down by fo…

As a European, this is so embarrassing to read.

The US is one of the oldest democracies on earth.

"You can give the government infinite power, we will do a revolution, no big deal."

Do you have any idea with how much suffering each revolution has been paid for?

And remind me again how the revolutionaries overthrew Nazi Germany?

The sowjet bloc created decades of suffering and blood but according to you that's fine because we can take them "down by force from time to time"?

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government is the solution to when business gets too much power. I totally agree with this. But are personalized Facebook ads really an example of this? And what's the solution when the government gets too much power? Especially in a "democracy," when the people have implicitly given approval for this by voting in the people who are attempting to consolidate power?

> But are personalized Facebook ads really an example of this? Yes: Facebook proven to negatively impact mental health (tau.ac.il) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32938622 Facebook collecting people's data even when accounts are deactivated (digiday.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29817297 Facebook test asks users if they're worried a friend is 'becoming an extremist' (cnn.com) https://news.ycombinator…

All of this are far from material harms. Compared to what governments can do and are doing.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to aggregate personal information of large numbers of people is a form of political power. Facebook can, if it so wishes, provide a list of all gay people in an area; all supporters of gaza or of israel; all people who have recently commented on an article about drugs. The very ability to provide that list previously required an expensive secret police; today it does not. This is an extremely dangerous ab…

Yes, as can Apple, Google, every cable company, every telecom, the credit card companies, Grindr, health clinics

Your point being?

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst thing a company can do is try to sell you more soap. A company can bar the exits, letting you burn to death [0]. A company can send private militias to force you to work [1] (or because you were sent the wrong set of MtG cards [2]). A company can improperly store pesticide, until the resulting explosion kills thousands [3]. A company can own every house and store in a town, managing your expenses to ensur…

Yep. And when I’m unhappy with my government, I can vote them out or, if I want to, get politically active. I can’t vote out Google. Their customers are advertisers, not me. And I don’t know which apps on my phone send my information to Facebook or what they do with it.

Then don't use google, duh.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#186
post #39
post #6

I know in HN there is a big "personalized advertising" is bad sentiment, but I don't get what the problem is. I mean, if I am looking for a notebook, I rather have FB/IG (or Google or whatever), show me adds of a notebook that I might end up buying, instead of the generic poker/porn adds that we had on the beginning of the internet. It is almost impossible to have a free internet without ads. So on one side, people w…

If I go to a BMX page then show me an advert for a new helmet or whatever That's not how adverts work. Instead I get an advert for a new TV because I bought a new TV last week. > It is almost impossible to have a free internet without ads. Adverts aren't free. The service still costs the same to provide, but on top of that you have to pay for the advert infrastructure too Companies paying for the adverts fund the, bu…

> If I go to a BMX page then show me an advert for a new helmet or whatever

> That's not how adverts work. Instead I get an advert for a new TV because I bought a new TV last week.

Whether that works well enough to pay for producing and distributing that BMX page depends on how big the market is for BMX-related products and how many different BMX pages are vying for the attention of people who visit BMX sites and buy BMX-related products.

For things with a large market and a small number of major sites that much of the market visits, it can work great. For smaller markets it might only work for the largest sites (if there are any). So you can easily end up with the biggest site or two getting almost all the interest-related ads, and the smaller sites only get ads for things that the general population buys.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#187
post #6

I know in HN there is a big "personalized advertising" is bad sentiment, but I don't get what the problem is. I mean, if I am looking for a notebook, I rather have FB/IG (or Google or whatever), show me adds of a notebook that I might end up buying, instead of the generic poker/porn adds that we had on the beginning of the internet. It is almost impossible to have a free internet without ads. So on one side, people w…

Problem is that they show you the notebook after you have purchased one. The car after you bought one. Medical services after you get back from the hospital.

Your ability to discover relevant products from targeted advertisement is flawed to begin with.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#188
post #172

Ok, my contrarian hot take (for HN at least). The real entities we need to be afraid of in regards to privacy are governments & politicians, not companies & entrepreneurs. The worst thing a company can do is try to sell you more soap. The government on the other hand can literally ruin your life (or even end it in some countries). The EU is doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone distracted by pointing the finger a…

Are you sure there is a line between the tech companies and the governments? We’re in the middle of a massive intelligence scandal here in Denmark. Which at its core is about how a couple of high level figures might’ve leaked that our own government is sharing all our internet data with the US “illegally”. I put “illegally” in quotes because it’s not technically illegal for the US to use surveillance on us. Just like…

> they are also doing it to protect our tech industry

Indeed. And due to the fact that such an industry basically doesn't exist, they are able to introduce such regulation.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#189

Personalized advertising should never have been allowed without a specific opt-in. I know lots of advertisers think they can't live without it --- because promoters have told them so.

> because promoters have told them so.

No, it's because they want to make as much money as possible.

If promoters told them to turn off all ads, they wouldn't. They don't care about promoters. They care about money.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But are personalized Facebook ads really an example of this? Yes: Facebook proven to negatively impact mental health (tau.ac.il) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32938622 Facebook collecting people's data even when accounts are deactivated (digiday.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29817297 Facebook test asks users if they're worried a friend is 'becoming an extremist' (cnn.com) https://news.ycombinator…

All of this are far from material harms. Compared to what governments can do and are doing.

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