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YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

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Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#181

Post by gretch »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #98
gretch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that we have been fortunate that Google's ad business was willing to subsidize it for us for so long with so little required in return. Unfortunately it appears that possibly the screws are getting turned, and there is less appetite for the subsidy. Um well no. They still have appetite to support the business with Ads (and they offer a paid version if you don't like Ads). The thing they no longer have app…

Am I breaching Yotube's TOS if I look away and / or mute their ads? No. So what's the difference If I automate that? Plenty of people won't, and they will still make money. Google can't force people to watch their ads, unless they hold us down and pry open our eyelids, A Clockwork Orange style. Shit, I shouldn't have given our digital overlords any ideas.

Okay to all of that - the thing we’re talking about here is them not serving you the video.

No one’s forcing you to watch any ads, or videos in the first place.

So dramatic with the “I need Television without ads or it’s literally a dystopia” takes

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#182

Post by hau »

iooi wrote: post #119
hau wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're right about initial value proposition, but it doesn't seem odd to me at all. There are other things about treating youtube as netflix/hbo/hulu: - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading - I can pay for youtube subscription and would still get…

I love how there's a perfect counter to every single point you posted. It seems like some people just want to hate. > - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there That's a bug, not a feature. You're basically restricted to the tastes of Netflix's buyers. > - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading Then yo…

No hate, I simply can understand why paying for youtube feels different from paying for netflix. These are not some bulletprof arguments why nobody should pay money, it's just why I personally can feel it's different than paid content provider/producer.

>You're basically restricted to the tastes of Netflix's buyers.

Same as going to the cinema. I don't expect to see 5 minutes of figuring out camera settings and 2 hours of black screen. I completely miss how it's not a feature. At the same time I support variety and experiments with a content of any kind, it's just not that.

>You can easily skip these, not sure what the issue is here.

No issue. I use sponsorblock as I mentioned, so no manual intervention required. Why do I have to do it though.

>all change their inventory frequently due to licensing. It wasn't long ago that you could watch Sopranos on Amazon.

Did you know they announced removal of Sopranos beforehand? You could make an informed decision given a warning.

>it's a problem with the US legal system.

No it's not. But thank you for a perfect counter.

>YouTube has created tons of wealth for creators and has cut out tons of the usual Hollywood intermediaries.

Fair enough, there is some service being provided by youtube. They basically made all the content on platform possible.

>Additionally, there has never been a greater investment made on storing and distributing video like the one Google made on YouTube.

This wasn't a charity.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#183

Post by jancsika »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

> It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust.

It's almost like Youtube is a different product and UX!

People obviously think of Youtube as the place where nearly all the important, timely video/streaming content exists in some form or another. Professionally produced content sits right next to town hall meetings with 13 views, or some kid's first remix. People sometimes use it as an extension of their harddrive for random video content. Hell, there's a whole genre of people sitting silently in picture, watching professionally produced content. Plus a genre of obviously fake reactions to content that rando's claim they've never seen before.

It's difficult to unwind a product pitched for decades as a kind of public good video cloud, and re-pitch that as monthly-charge cable television.

"Aren't people fickle?" is a hilarious way to misunderstand the situation. I mean, ok, but that take applies equally to nearly any non-trivial business challenge of any company that has ever existed.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#184

Post by wruza »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

Is it at all surprising? Free content replaces all kinds of free time, not only quality kind. So when it goes non-free there’s enough people who say “nah not worth it” in different accents. Personally if I was forced by youtube to do what they want, I’d probably just watch it much less (with ads, only required content) and spend time in a similar or less useless activity.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#185

Post by Workaccount2 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #125
Workaccount2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube was not free at the time vid.me came to be. Also, using money from one business to keep another business alive is not a monopolistic practice. Plenty of tech companies have had the technical and monetary firepower to run a youtube competitor. But you just have to read a few threads on the internet from anytime in the last decade talking about youtube and monetization to see why no one wanted to jump in. This…

> Youtube was not free at the time vid.me came to be. Sorry but this take is pretty wild to me. I can understand that there is a paid option but YouTube is free today given that I can currently watch a video after watching a couple ads without paying any money. > Also, using money from one business to keep another business alive is not a monopolistic practice. I'm not sure this is true in theory but, regardless, to e…

Ad-supported is not the same as free.

It's been a long time since youtube was free.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#186

Post by [deleted] »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #87
zdragnar wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If allowing ads is part of the terms of their service for non-paying users, then they are in fact free to not grant you access to the video feed. It's still shitty, but this isn't a thing where you can have your cake and eat it too.

> then they are in fact free to not grant you access to the video feed. Correct, but as long as they do grant me access to the video feed, I should be free to modify how it is rendered on my end as I wish.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#187

Post by hau »

JAlexoid wrote: post #147
hau wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem on all of these platforms, but to a completely different degree.

Your favourite creator can post a video on Patreon, that you pay for, and immediately remove it. Pointing the finger at YouTube like it's a unique problem is...

I'm comparing it with other platforms, which are usually announce removal beforehand. That's it.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#188

Post by contravariant »

bloppe wrote: post #124
contravariant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about paying for youtube, this is about ads. People don't want youtube ads, and frankly it's their good right to not have to download, display and watch them if they so choose. What youtube now wants is proof that people have watched ads. This is problematic for 2 reasons. The first is that there is no way to prove you've watched an ad in a way that's not a privacy nightmare and extremely hostile to users.…

Paid youtube is the default. Ads are just an alternative option for people who don't want to pay. Why do you feel so disgusted that they're providing you with an alternative option?

The thing is that this argument only works if you just assume that everything people put on youtube is put there with the expectation that people will pay to see it, rather than just to put it out there in whatever way is most convenient.

If they want to be paid they should just go paid and see if anyone still wants to share videos on a closed platform, if they don't want to do that why should I need to approve of every single alternative they manage to come up with?

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#189

Post by Aunche »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #76
Workaccount2 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one else wants to run a lemonade stand because they can see customers do not want to pay for lemondade. See the Vid.me rise and fall illustrates this perfectly. Their closing letter to users even says in so many words "Ya'll don't want to pay, so how can we stay open?"

> Ya'll don't want to pay It's easy to wonder why. The status quo at the time had been that user-submitted video content (YouTube) is free. It was only free because Alphabet had their losses from YouTube subsidized by their profits from Google. Maybe not for all, but for many this is an anti-trust issue.

> The status quo at the time had been that user-submitted video content (YouTube) is free.

It's not free. You payment is that you watch the ads.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#190

Post by cykros »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

I too find it odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO, etc.
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