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Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

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Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#181

Post by dadadatamen »

Youden wrote: post #152
xp84 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meta wanted those who opt-out of data sharing to have to pay money, which is most likely not legal. I really don't get this attitude. I 100% endorse everyone's right to uninstall every Meta app and never use them, and to block their on-page trackers on third-party websites with an adblocker, all that. But the notion that there should be some sort of EU-protected "Right To Use Facebook For Free"... nah. Using the ap…

Facebook is only banned from behavioural advertising; regular advertising is still perfectly fine. They're not being banned from making money at all, they're only being banned from using personal data to make more money.

Nobody will blow the whistle on whether that's true or not. It's a fact that we can't trust companies like Meta. Not because it's engineers who implement dark patterns or because all the people in a business earn more money if they disregard human or environmental wellbeing but because leadership literally lies to congress, judges, the public, their users and their customers all the freaking time.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#182

Post by fsckboy »

Barrin92 wrote: post #99
fsckboy wrote: post #57

scandinavians are no different from other people, and changing the rules of advertising will not diminish Norwegian companies from wanting to advertise their goods. back in the 80's Norway had a ban on cigarette advertising, so Marlboro launched a clothing/lifestyle brand, blue jeans and other cowboy style clothes. With their competitors hobbled by the advertising ban, perhaps that was even more effective.

>scandinavians are no different from other people Household consumption as a % of GDP in Norway is 30% compared to 68% in the US. The Norwegian public sector produces 70% of Norway's GDP. You're underestimating to what extent these policies reflect real differences in how countries are run. In the good old USA Facebook et al are allowed to do what they do because people keeping those credit cards busy is what keeps t…

Norway has a ton of publicly owned oil, on an industrial scale. You aren't establishing that that isn't the explanation for all of it.

When Europeans come to the US, they largely behave like Americans, they fit right in. What Europeans need to stop doing is telling themselves that they're different.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#184

Post by theonlybutlet »

dadadatamen wrote: post #176
tagyro wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree - you can't just stop using it. Given the size of facebook (or google, amazon, microsoft, apple etc), they are ingrained in our (tech) life in such a way that one has to invest a - not negligible - amount of work to stop using them. To sum it up: companies want to have "power", but without having "responsibility".

You can. It's almost quite literally an effort of 30 - 60 min per day or week or month, depending on how skilled you are at keeping things convenient, meaning self-hosting services and maintaining them.

And say getting a job, when everything is through LinkedIn?

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#185

Post by Drakim »

az09mugen wrote: post #148
radium3d wrote: post #72

I don't think it's the ads people need to be worried about. It's pages, groups and their "users" posts manipulating people. News flash: a majority aren't even real human users.

I wonder if one day there will be a majority of bots liking AI-generated content, so it will be a closed loop.

Long after the last human logs off we still have to run it because it will be the primary economical engine of tech.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#186

Post by pb7 »

yowzadave wrote: post #94
throwaway237289 wrote: post #85

[flagged]

> You teach those filthy capitalists while you sit on a sovereign fund of oil wealth. Not sure how this is supposed to be a gotcha—a sovereign wealth fund is by definition socialistic?

The point is they never learned how to create any value because they’re sitting on a goldmine.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#187

Post by okr »

yowzadave wrote: post #94
throwaway237289 wrote: post #85

[flagged]

> You teach those filthy capitalists while you sit on a sovereign fund of oil wealth. Not sure how this is supposed to be a gotcha—a sovereign wealth fund is by definition socialistic?

Dirty oil money made you filthy rich, while destroying the environment. And from that pedastal you judge about other filthy capitalists. It is all a joke.

(But, maybe you are right, hackernews is full of people saturated on a pedestal and judging from there with a socialistic mindset. Well, it is a virus, that takes on young people with yet underdeveloped brains. ;)

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#188

Post by Joeri »

rambambram wrote: post #179

I translated this text to English and what I don't understand is they talk about the Norwegian Data Protection Authority, quickly say something about European Privacy Council, and then go on telling: > "The Norwegian Privacy Council's decision is an instruction to the Irish Data Protection Authority to place a permanent ban on Meta's European head office in Ireland. Once this has happened, the ban will come into effe…

The holding company for Meta in the EU is located in Ireland because the double Irish system of accounting allowed them to avoid paying corporate taxes in the EU. (Not sure if this is still the case, I think they now always have to pay the minimum 13% rate.)

I think any kind of enforcement against Meta has to go through Ireland because of that. The EU is a treaty, not a country. It is always local authorities that have to enforce legal action.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#189

Post by Terretta »

ako wrote: post #146
littlestymaar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, if Facebook's users were all paying for it (and all its competitors), there would be no advertising on it, Ah yes, much like how cable TV has no ads on it, right? Or newspapers. Or how Microsoft Windows has no ads on it because you paid for the OS? Or like how smart TVs aren't spying on you because you bought them… If there's money to be made by spying and putting ads, it will be done, no matter if you pay fo…

With cable you’re paying the cable company, not the content provides. For that you’d have to pay the stations as well. Similar to Netflix, pay for your network, and pay the content provider.

> With cable you’re paying the cable company, not the content providers.

Cable and satellite such as Comcast, Time Warner Cable or DirecTV pay networks like ESPN and TNT a certain amount PER CUSTOMER for programming content each month. The median price paid for each channel a subscriber gets is 14 cents. Sports content costs the cable company the most, ESPN was estimated to cost $8.37 per month in 2018, but arguably actually should cost much more if you consider time each channel is watched versus its cost:

https://www.thewrap.com/cable-network-carriage-fees/

https://variety.com/vip/pay-tv-true-cost-free-1234810682/

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#190

Post by jdietrich »

xp84 wrote: post #120
neontomo wrote: post #98

Context from the Norwegian article: Meta promised to ask users whether they want to opt-in, but they never did, so now they are banning these behaviours until they have come up with a better way of handling this. Furthermore, Meta wanted those who opt-out of data sharing to have to pay money, which is most likely not legal.

> Meta wanted those who opt-out of data sharing to have to pay money, which is most likely not legal. I really don't get this attitude. I 100% endorse everyone's right to uninstall every Meta app and never use them, and to block their on-page trackers on third-party websites with an adblocker, all that. But the notion that there should be some sort of EU-protected "Right To Use Facebook For Free"... nah. Using the ap…

The GDPR says that consent must be freely given and freely revocable, otherwise it isn't real consent. It would be obviously unfair if, for example, your employer could say "agree to install our spyware on your personal devices or you're fired", or for your landlord to say "agree to let me put surveillance cameras in your apartment or you're evicted". That isn't consent, it's coercion. A right that you can be coerced to relinquish isn't a right.

Facebook have a right to charge a subscription fee. They have a right to ask you to provide your personal data. They don't have the right to charge their users a privacy tax.

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