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How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

lemire.me

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Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#181
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which has basically no meaning I don't think it has less meaning than the idea that the most sere and hostile environment for our species that we've yet been able to access - the deadliest imaginable desert, accessible only at vast effort and expense - has for our taking the boundless cornucopia of riches that space maximalists constantly promise, and with no more support than you complain I offer. Meanwhile you bl…

> I don't think it has less meaning than the idea that the most sere and hostile environment for our species that we've yet been able to access - the deadliest imaginable desert, accessible only at vast effort and expense - has for our taking the boundless cornucopia of riches that space maximalists constantly promise, and with no more support than you complain I offer. We've already benefited greatly from just the p…

These justifications aren't novel, and aren't really much better than you claim mine to be. You gesture vaguely at technological progress, as every humans-in-space booster does. I have yet to hear anyone defend any of those advances as both useful enough to be worth wanting, and impossible to achieve on Earth. That's an easier job in this case because we're discussing a counterfactual, so you're as free to invent something novel to defend as I am to imagine a trillion dollars going to an aid organization that actually manages to put the money where it does the most good, rather than serving as a combined graft slush fund and political football as most such organizations do now.

> At what point in your hypothetical world where you got to make these policies would it be acceptable for humanity to start exploring space again?

When there is no human on Earth who suffers in a way that money can prevent, I'll no longer consider a dollar spent on putting a human into space a dollar culpably wasted.

> Humanity's driven by curious people willing to explore well beyond what seems rational to most people, not myopic luddites who would eschew entire avenues of exploration simply because they can't understand the utility in it.

I grew up suffused in the US space program. Huntsville was my favorite vacation. I read everything I could get my hands on - which, thanks to my grandfather, was a lot - I dreamed of astronaut school, at least until I learned it had visual acuity requirements. But even that little dampened the dream; I still spent most of my childhood studying with the intent of becoming an engineer and ultimately joining NASA. There are a lot of reasons that didn't happen, but none of them had to do with the dream itself failing - and in some ways, it still hasn't; do you think, if I still could believe there was anything for us either to find or to offer out there, I wouldn't want my people to go to the stars?

If, even in the face of all that, I still can be unconvinced by the case for putting humans as we are now into space, then that case needs to be better made. But dreamer though I was, the thing I came eventually to understand about a dream is that, however beautiful it may be, eventually you wake up and find reality still there.

As far as "human curiosity beyond rationality" goes, I would have been much more sympathetic to that argument before it became inescapably obvious that in its pursuit we have quite literally set the world on fire.

In the face of an error on that scale, I believe only a fool would fail to adjust his perspective, at least to encompass the possibility that, in the argot of my youth, we have gotten quite a bit too big for our breeches.

That we should reach beyond our grasp is something even I consider creditable in the species. That we should reach into the gearbox of the world and have it tear off a couple fingers, and then want to go right on reaching without a thought at least to stanch the bleeding, at some point becomes self-destructive madness. An individual human displaying such behavior would be restrained for his own good. As a species, we would have to do that for ourselves, or reality will do it for us. It is doing exactly that now. We would be wise to take that into account in deciding our next actions. We won't. But we could, and we should.

Humans aren't going anywhere any time soon, and I see nothing meaningful to choose between Mars today and Mars a hundred years from now, or two hundred, or a thousand. In that meantime, our efforts could make a meaningful difference as to how many billion humans are alive to celebrate that happy day.

You really want to convince me that space boosterism might still, in spite of everything, have merit? Show me you can take the long view.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wish that people who feel the need to dispute what I've said in this thread would more reliably address themselves to things I have said, rather than to claims I've not even approached making.

If you rely on implication to make your point, you should mentally underwrite the risk of being frustrated at people who read what you wrote, rather than read your mind :-)

Hardly frustrated! Believe it or not, I do change my opinions and perspectives when I find that warranted, but my view of the world is not lazily arrived at, and to see a need to change it requires an argument I find even on reflection I can't answer.

HN is one of the most reliable sources of those that I know, and developing a thread in this way is one of the more reliable methods I know to improve my odds of eliciting one. Luckily for me, I have enough of a prickly, disputatious streak in my own nature to appreciate the process quite as much as the result.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#183
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And still mostly wasted. Look after the people on Earth first. Once we show we can accomplish that, then and only then do we begin to earn the stars.

This feels like you're unaware that, for all that remains to be done, less than half as many people are living in extreme poverty today as compared to 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:To...

In a counterfactual that begins with a trillion dollars to spend on something other than war - even in reality, for that matter - do you really not imagine we could choose to do better as a species than a dollar a day?

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#184
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like you're unaware that, for all that remains to be done, less than half as many people are living in extreme poverty today as compared to 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:To...

In a counterfactual that begins with a trillion dollars to spend on something other than war - even in reality, for that matter - do you really not imagine we could choose to do better as a species than a dollar a day?

1) A trillion dollars, spread over the 1.8 billion people in extreme poverty in 1990 and the 32 years since then, would have been 0.046 USD/person/day.

2) There's also this graph, if you want to see how the other income brackets are changing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty#/media/File:Th...

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you'll understand how very, very, very dumb computers actually are That’s not true for any post 1995 desktop CPU. They just adhere to that model and pretend that that’s all they’re doing but in reality there’s layers of supercomputers inside the CPU: micro-op cache, branch predictor, reorder buffer, rename buffer. They extract hidden parallelism out of the code, run it in blazing fast multiple instructions per cloc…

The designs are smart. The CPUs themselves are still dumb, which is precisely the reason why speculative execution bugs exist. It's magic up until the point all the tricks spill out. In the end, it's always just logic gates wired together to do certain things — whether it's a Z80 or an M2 Max. All this layered complexity is simply the product of 50 years of iterative improvements.

I think this is just doubling down and simplifying CPUs to the point of uselessness.

What's the difference between a logic gate and when my index and thumb have a static charge jump between them? About a couple trillion dollars of research.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you'll understand how very, very, very dumb computers actually are That’s not true for any post 1995 desktop CPU. They just adhere to that model and pretend that that’s all they’re doing but in reality there’s layers of supercomputers inside the CPU: micro-op cache, branch predictor, reorder buffer, rename buffer. They extract hidden parallelism out of the code, run it in blazing fast multiple instructions per cloc…

The designs are smart. The CPUs themselves are still dumb, which is precisely the reason why speculative execution bugs exist. It's magic up until the point all the tricks spill out. In the end, it's always just logic gates wired together to do certain things — whether it's a Z80 or an M2 Max. All this layered complexity is simply the product of 50 years of iterative improvements.

> In the end, it's always just logic gates wired together to do certain things

That seems to me a highly reductive point of view. The whole is always more than the sum of its parts.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#187
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human brain IS an example of such a mechanism. We've done it artificially as well with machine learning and genetic algorithms. The amount of concepts in the neural network of an LLM is too large for us to fully understand. At best we can only hope to understand these things as a sort of curve fitting optimization problem.

I was using some weasel words, because the human brain does have some structure that we can decipher. Specific injuries to the brain, even in different people, tend to cause the same specific problems. (With heavy emphasis on 'tend to', this is not deterministic, like removing the 'e' key from your keyboard.)

We can do the same with LLMs. We can tease out some macro structure behaviors by looking at intermediate output from the feed forward network.

But you see how this is far from true understanding. It's like removing the WiFi module from a PC and you lose WiFi, therefore you know the WiFi module does WiFi stuff but in the end this action contributes nothing towards cohesive understanding of the PC.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#188
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're unlucky. I think the next generation or a couple generations down the line they will figure out biological immortality. If you're immortal the sum total of things you will see in your lifetime will dwarf the experience you're having now.

And what will we do with immortality? Our organs will continue to deteriorate, especially the brain. Many older people are already quite gullible and easy to feed propaganda to, being a favored target to politicians, let alone someone 90+.

That deterioration is what eventually causes death so immortality involves removing said deterioration.

I'm short Immortality is achieved by stopping aging.

Re: How many billions of transistors in an iPhone processor?

#190
post #48

I've often struggled to really "grok" how complex chips are. They all kinda look the same. I write software, so I know how complex that is, but like the device itself -- it's this little black box. What's the difference between one little black box and another? Most people don't even get that far; they think the computer is the screen that lights up. I've been reading datasheets a lot at work. The datasheet for an ST…

i do web development, not versed on the iot stuff. i tried to read an Espressif ESP32 manual, blew my fucking mind on how complex it is relative to how cheap it is.

The expensive part is usually the engineering itself. Once the chip has been designed, manufacturing is relatively cheap. You can even get reasonably-capable MCUs for as little as $0.10!
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