Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 406 posts

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#181

Post by ikiris »

cj wrote: post #137
dreamcompiler wrote: post #131

Wrong assumptions programmers make about fraud prevention: -- A mobile phone number uniquely identifies a single person. -- Every person has a mobile phone number and they only have one mobile phone number. -- If a person's mobile phone number is associated with VoIP or Google Voice, that indicates fraud. -- Every person always has their mobile phone handy and it is always able to receive calls and SMS messages under…

The problem with many of these examples is that 99% of the time, it is a sign of fraud, and 1% of the time it’s a false positive. > If a person's mobile phone number is associated with VoIP or Google Voice, that indicates fraud. I’ve been using this heuristic (along with VPN and IP geo lookup) when screening job candidates after a massive influx of developers outside the US applying for US-only remote roles. I discov…

So you wont hire anyone who uses google fi? That's pretty lousy.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#182

Post by withinboredom »

starttoaster wrote: post #115
crazygringo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah sorry, it was hard to understand what types of transactions you were talking about. Yes, the reality is that when you try to live in a foreign country and do non-touristy "resident" things like buy things online or pay bills, but when you don't actually have a work visa that allows you to open a local bank account -- the systems aren't built for that. And local merchants really do put themselves at the risk of sca…

> because you don't pay the hospital large amount ahead, and when it's time there's not enough time to wire the money. This was their justification against wire transfers. Obviously I don't know how the accounts receivable department works in Indian hospitals because I've never been to India let alone a hospital there, but this strikes me as unusual. A couple days delay to pay large sums of money seems more than reas…

wiring money via international accounts is instantaneous, last time I had wired money to me (last week). Or at least within an hour or two. The issue here, probably, is that there is usually a fairly large fee attached to it from the receiving bank. My bank, it's 25 bucks, flat rate. Each and every wire, even if it is 5 bucks being wired.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#183

Post by OkayPhysicist »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #101
Habgdnv wrote: post #44

I wholeheartedly support digitization, having been involved in the realms of development, system administration, and everything computer-related since my early days. However, what irks me is when I'm bound to use products or services from providers who fail to execute their roles properly despite being compensated for it. A recent incident at my child's school serves as a pertinent example. They transitioned from a t…

Well in my opinion, this is what it means to support digitisation. It means accepting that these situations will become more and more commonplace. It is simply the price you pay. In your other comment you mention that people handling email should be familiarising themselves properly with RFCs. Yeah. Maybe. Probably actually you're right. Putting aside the problem of ehether they actually _have to_ or _will_ for a sec…

Frankly, examples like GP's are a compelling argument for professional licensure for software developers, because "only accepting gmail addresses as valid emails" should be considered professional malpractice.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#184

Post by fsckboy »

thedougd wrote: post #180
cj wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with many of these examples is that 99% of the time, it is a sign of fraud, and 1% of the time it’s a false positive. > If a person's mobile phone number is associated with VoIP or Google Voice, that indicates fraud. I’ve been using this heuristic (along with VPN and IP geo lookup) when screening job candidates after a massive influx of developers outside the US applying for US-only remote roles. I discov…

I use my Google Voice number for everything that’s not family or friend.

yes, he understands that, he's saying you would not make it past the screening; you anecdotally fit into his "false positive" category.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#185

Post by qingcharles »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #131

Wrong assumptions programmers make about fraud prevention: -- A mobile phone number uniquely identifies a single person. -- Every person has a mobile phone number and they only have one mobile phone number. -- If a person's mobile phone number is associated with VoIP or Google Voice, that indicates fraud. -- Every person always has their mobile phone handy and it is always able to receive calls and SMS messages under…

I tried to place some online bets for a friend who is in prison.

But the betting sites don't allow you to use an ethernet cable to connect to your router o_O (unless you also enable wifi.. except my desktop doesn't have wifi)

https://helpcenter.il.betrivers.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049...

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#186

Post by fsckboy »

ikiris wrote: post #181
cj wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with many of these examples is that 99% of the time, it is a sign of fraud, and 1% of the time it’s a false positive. > If a person's mobile phone number is associated with VoIP or Google Voice, that indicates fraud. I’ve been using this heuristic (along with VPN and IP geo lookup) when screening job candidates after a massive influx of developers outside the US applying for US-only remote roles. I discov…

So you wont hire anyone who uses google fi? That's pretty lousy.

he completely explained why he needs to do this.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#187

Post by withinboredom »

reaperman wrote: post #23
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it might actually make it worse. Why are you suddenly, while in the US (for example), ordering physical services in India? My bank locked my credit card once due to suspected fraud. I asked what triggered it and they said "You never buy gas on this card". This was 15 years ago and I'm sure the algorithms have only gotten better. A different bank used to ask you to tell them if you were planning on travel…

Not to mention the number of apps (and increasingly websites) which will require location services. So now you have a GPS location in India, and you're making credit card purchases alternating between USA IP's and India point-of-sale machines (and presumably sometimes Indian IP's for apps/sites that might block USA IP's) throughout the day. As a fellow world traveler / international worker, I do still think this is w…

My bank has a mode that prevents purchases from merchants more than "100 km from me" ... it turns out the ice cream truck from another city was "more than 100 km from me".

That was entertaining and embarrassing because the machine was returning "insufficient funds" for a $2 ice cream, while I'm scrambling in the app trying to figure out how to turn that shit off.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#188

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

didip wrote: post #103

To quickly solve some of your pain, pay a VPN node in America and just proxy requests through it. Small amount of money compared to the stress.

VPN is a #1 sign of a fraudster, you will quickly learn this truing to use a VPN.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#189

Post by jeromegv »

neilparikh wrote: post #86
brianmiddleton wrote: post #13

I move to random corners of the world every 2-3 years and this is starting to give me real anxiety every time I try to make a purchase. One of my credit cards makes me jump through all of the verification and "Was this really you?" messages, then still locks my account half the time. So many online stores will approve my purchase and bill the card with no issue, then cancel it a few hours later for vague security rea…

When I was traveling abroad, I placed an order on Walmart, shipping to my home address, so that it would be there for me when I got back home. Walmart cancelled the order, "due to location restrictions on placing and shipping orders", even though the delivery address was in the US! I have no idea why the physical location of the computer placing the order should matter to Walmart. Eventually I just had to get my frie…

Shopify does use the IP location distance Vs shipping address as a risk factor for fraud. I see it often on my Shopify stores where they will flag an order as high risk for that reason.

Same thing if someone used a VPN.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#190

Post by starttoaster »

withinboredom wrote: post #182
starttoaster wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because you don't pay the hospital large amount ahead, and when it's time there's not enough time to wire the money. This was their justification against wire transfers. Obviously I don't know how the accounts receivable department works in Indian hospitals because I've never been to India let alone a hospital there, but this strikes me as unusual. A couple days delay to pay large sums of money seems more than reas…

wiring money via international accounts is instantaneous, last time I had wired money to me (last week). Or at least within an hour or two. The issue here, probably, is that there is usually a fairly large fee attached to it from the receiving bank. My bank, it's 25 bucks, flat rate. Each and every wire, even if it is 5 bucks being wired.

I'll take your word for it, a glance at google told me a wire transfer from a foreign bank will typically take about 2 days to clear, but I've only ever done wire transfers domestically. But yeah, a $25 fee might be the hold up, except if I'm understanding the OP, the wire transfer would be for costly medical care. Typically if I'm looking at paying a large bill, the bill blinds me from the pain of being nickel and dimed on fees. So I think we're probably not talking about paying $5 at 7-11.
Post reply on HN